Aftermarket wheels / hubs to compliment fork upgrades, etc

Got questions? We got answers....
Post Reply
User avatar
Chuck78
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1186
Joined: 06:20 pm Nov 30 2016
Country: USA
Location: Columbus, OH

Aftermarket wheels / hubs to compliment fork upgrades, etc

Post by Chuck78 »

I've been digging up some info on KX aftermarket hubs & wheel sets out of curiosity of building another set or two of KDX wheels, so I figured I'd document it here so others can make use of it.

The bottom line here is that there are zero aftermarket front hubs that cater to the KDX/KLX 15mm axle / fork setup or speedometer/odometer drive, so this really only pertains to those upgrading to a minimum of 43mm 1991+ or 1993+ KX forks or other Showa or KYB Japanese fork upgrades which use a larger 17mm, 20mm, or 22mm modern front axle.

After learning of the weight savings of 0.50lbs to 4.8lbs from swapping out the 1988 technology '95-'06 KDX forks to KLX forks (which still use the thin & flexy 15mm KDX axle vs modern 20mm or '91-'92/'93 KX 17mm), or a much greater upgrade to '91-95 KX 43mm inverted forks, RMX250 forks (EXCELLENT KDX SWAP, CORRECT HEIGHT!), DRZ400E/400 or 2002+ DRZ400S forks, or any 1996+ MX/modern enduro forks, as well as eliminating the extreme fork tube underhang, I decided that to match the fork swap wheel up front, why not build up a '97-'02 KX OEM (3 bearing rear hubs) or aftermarket rear with 18" rim and spokes?

I've built up a '97-'98 KX125/250 3-bearing rear hub already that a member here sold me, and was looking for another to do as well. I've got a Kawazuki '04-'06 KX250F / '04-'07 RM-Z250 front wheel here with an OEM Excel Takasago, and a new Excel Takasago FES410 to lace up in place of a cracked D.I.D. U-rim from '99-'02 KX's, same front hub as the 1st gen 4-stroke Kawasaki KX250F & the identical joint venture bike the 1st gen Suzuki RM-Z250.
The OEM double butted plated front spokes and alloy nipples are quite nice & in excellent condition, so I was plenty good with that over aftermarket straight gauge heavy stainless spokes, but for an 18" rear conversion for woods/KDX use, aftermarket Excel stainless spokes + alloy splined nipples or others were mandatory since all MX bikes since '89-ish came with a short sidewall 19" rear.

I'm still shopping for another '97-'98 KX rear hub ('97-'04 KX500 fitment also), but got curious about aftermarket wheels suited for KX125/250/500 models, and figured I'd document my late 2024 findings....




Image



The big thing is that in 2003, most Japanese bike rear axles jumped up to 25mm on nearly all full size MX & serious enduro bikes, which makes adapter spacers necessary. Also, the KX rear rotor pattern went from 6 bolts with a 100mm center bore with 220mm outside diameter rotor size, to 2003+ using 4 bolts and 115mm inside rotor bore @ 240mm outside diameter.
The sprockets I believe remained the same 6-bolt pattern however. The front hubs I believe I'd read still carried the same 4-bolt rotor pattern, please confirm this though.


Most of the available KX500 / '90-'02 KX125/250 aftermarket wheelsets adapt to the 2003+ hubs with a special 220mm rear rotor and *maybe*(?) a special 250mm front rotor (if those 2006+ bikes run a larger front rotor - the front rotor bolt pattern may be the same though????).
They'll have special spacers to step down to the 20mm axle, and in the correct widths for the year of KX requested.
The front hubs won't be adapted for the rather small 15mm KDX/KLX axle, but can come set up for whatever year 1990+ KX etc fork swap which you've chosen.
KDXGarage confirmed 1993 KX125/250 & the typical 1-yr delayed 1994 upgrade to the KX500 is when the front axle jumped up to a 20mm from 17mm, so that's a good minimum period to aim for, '93- '94-'95 KX125/250 forks which mount right KDX250/KLX650R triples to make a bolt-on KDX200/220/250 upgrade.

Warp9 and KKE have adapted 2003+ offerings to fit the '90-'02 KX, which is what we require for the rear, and depending on fork swap choice, for the front also. They have a location in Chino, California as well as Brisbane, Australia.

https://www.kkeracing.com/products/kke- ... 2002-discs

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... =0&_sop=15

https://www.warp9racing.com/product/mx-wheels/

https://aomc.mx/90-31812.html


I emailed KKE about their special conversion rotor to fit the KDX & 2002 & earlier KX 220mm size on the 2003+ rear hubs, and they got back to me with a custom product page that I believe they just made up for my request:
https://www.kkeracing.com/products/kke- ... -1993-2002

$39.99 for the 4-bolt 2003+ hub rear rotor in the 2002 & earlier 220mm diameter vs the later rotors which are all 240mm


------------------------------------------------------------------

For hubs which I believe are made to fit the 1990 or 1993-2002 6-bolt 220mm rear rotors, check these out:

https://www.metricsengineering.co.uk/envy-wheel-hubs/

https://www.instagram.com/envymx_uk/

The actual CNC company who manufactures Talon hubs does sell their own versions called Envy Hubs, but finding them is difficult.
Talon do appear to be perhaps the only ones who offer an aftermarket billet hub that works with the 1990-2002 6-bolt 100mm i.d. / 220mm o.d rear rotors directly.... and probably Envy as well so I have been told.

Image

The '90-'02 hub pictured shows a green hub with 6-bolt rotor flange at least, but I know online sites often use generic generalized photos, but no mention of a special conversion rotor is made, so I think this is a legit assumption... They have a very nice custom ordering request form for front and rear wheels separately, to take into account all variables, colors, sizes, axles and spacer sizes, titanium or steel rotor bolts, sprocket tooth count, etc....

Talon rear hub
https://talon-eng.co.uk/product/tw607a- ... 5-250-500/
Pick your Talon front hub based on your fork swap. I'm using '99-'06 ('04-'07 on the Kawazuki RMZ250, '04-'06 on the identical Kawazuki KX250F joint venture years) front hubs for '98 RM250 forks, FYI, they seemed to work out well although I'll have a custom spacer on one side.
Talon front hubs:
https://talon-eng.co.uk/product-categor ... -kawasaki/

Tusk hubs are available for 2003+ for $139-ish, but will require the special Warp9 or KKE rear 220mm 4-bolt conversion rotors, & custom spacers for those of you who have a metal lathe at your disposal...

------------------------------

MXChamp are a high end Chinese brand that have nice billet purple and green anodized hubs, and upon request, they have special spacers to adapt to the older 20mm rear axles, and also advertise using high quality Japanese bearings, but these will still require the conversion rear rotors mentioned. My friend Sebastian has laced up this brand of hubs before, for a Boyko Racing customer, and vouched that they indeed seem to be of high quality.

As a workaround, there are some pretty nice 2003+ KX and KX250F rear rotor guards that double as caliper hangers, and these could easily be used with a basic but custom 25mm to 20mm bushing to fit the KDX axle while raising the caliper 10mm further radius to run a 2003+ 240mm KX/KXF rotor in place of the KDX's 220mm rotor... (I wish I'd saved the links for those trick rear rotor guards for KX250F's, I'll dig it up when I get a chance.)

The Tusk and MX Champ hubs will use OEM style spokes, which is nice, but not the period correct off-the-shelf rotors. The Talon, Warp 9, KKE, etc will mostly use their exclusive spokes I believe - double check this. Talon in particular I've read that the hub flanges are taller to run a shorter length spoke for more wheel rigidity.

MX Champ:
https://mxchampusashop.com/products/mxc ... 9075200156


https://www.ebay.com/itm/284257611051

Image
Screenshot_20241024-100345~2.png
Screenshot_20241024-100345~2.png (680.21 KiB) Viewed 1026 times




Also, 2003+ KX rears use 9 spokes that are 2mm longer for some reason, fronts as well I believe around that same era. I'll have to dig up my post from the KX group. The other 27 spokes on 2003-2024 KX/KXF are the same length (204mm?) as what 1986-2002 KX use. The Moose Racing 2003+ KX 18" rear stainless spoke and stainless nipple set with the 9 longer spokes may still be useable on the earlier hubs, but I'm not certain yet. I do have a pair here to try this out on. My Excel spoke set in an Excel rim and '97 KX hub weren't even close to bottoming out the nipple at the end of the threads, so I think the Moose spokes with the 9 longer spokes will still work in the 2002 & earlier hubs.


I haven't looked at Dubya Wheels yet, but they are very legit as well... They have those custom purple anodized Excel Takasago rims available only through them, like Carson Brown's and my buddy Sebastien Salvant's builds...


https://www.prostuf.com/en/mx-wheels-pr ... green.html
Last edited by Chuck78 on 10:02 am Oct 25 2024, edited 7 times in total.
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
'77 Suzuki PE250 & '83 Suzuki PE175 Full Floater - restomod projects
'77 Suzuki GS750-844cc, '77 GS400/489cc & '77 GS550/740cc projects
'62 GMC 1000 Panel Truck
'88 Suzuki Samurai TDI/Toyota swaps
'88 Toyota 4x4 pickup
User avatar
Chuck78
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1186
Joined: 06:20 pm Nov 30 2016
Country: USA
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Aftermarket wheels / hubs to compliment fork upgrades, etc

Post by Chuck78 »

I'm waiting for a guy to check to see if he still has a used gold anodized 1990-2002 KX Talon TW607A-G rear hub as it'd be nice to have 3 KX rear wheels for my two KDX220's.

I see Talon sells replacement spacer and bearing kits for every hub they've ever made, and spoke sets intended for these hubs, as do Dubya and KSR wheels here in the USA (Talon is in the UK).
Talon replied to my query and confirmed that their hubs are manufactured with the correct spoke angle for a 3-cross lacing pattern (requiring longer spokes than stock wheels), whereas OEM types are only a 2-cross pattern. I'm curious as to whether the spoke nipple angle in the rims is then slightly off from being intended for OEM type 2-cross lacing? I believe it is.
A 3-cross lacing pattern give a fairly significant amount of added strength to the wheel. Not necessary for an average casual rider, but pro riders and hard enduro riders certainly could use the extra strength... I'd say it's less required with Tubliss and it's 100psi 360 degree inner chamber "rim lock / rim protection" portion, but more required with Mousse inserts.


After weighing my options and having a set of stock length stainless spokes here, I picked up a 2nd used '97-'02 KX rear hub for now. If the guy digs up the Gold Talon '90-'02 rear 6-bolt-rotor hub he had for sale, I'll still likely buy that and be selling a pristine D.I.D. rim KDX/KLX wheelset that I have.

It really sounds like the Talon Rims are the absolute strongest and lightest on the market, stronger than even the top of the line Excel a60 and D.I.D. Dirt Star ST-X (I believe that's the DID equivalent to the a60). Their hubs also seem to be the best in the industry, AND they actually still make them for our older bikes (as well as Envy who I believe I'd read are the actual manufacturers of Talon's hubs).
Dubya Wheels are probably the best place in the USA to get Talon hubs, but the KSR Wheels website also seems to be a reputable and affordable source. (KSR, not to be confused with the KKE brand)

In other news, I was able to track down the guy in Slovakia that was previously selling non-stock color options of clear Excel Takasago Rims decals (the genuine Takasago are transfer decals only available in red and yellow), and snagged 6 wheels worth of purple lettering Excel Takasago Rims logo decals for my two purple & green KDX220's!
Screenshot_20241025-133528~3.png
Screenshot_20241025-133528~3.png (1.01 MiB) Viewed 973 times
I'm a fiend for the purple '96 KDX/KX stylings, so this was a nice finishing touch far cheaper than the custom anodized Excel Takasago rim blanks that Dubya anodizes purple, for a premium upcharge at that... I got 6 sets of black background reflective holographic silver lettering Excel Takasago rim decals thrown in for free with that deal after sharing pictures of my KDX's with the seller! Let me know if anyone wants a set of the holographic decals, one set of 8 will adorn the black rims on my wife' '07 KTM 200 XC-W.
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
'77 Suzuki PE250 & '83 Suzuki PE175 Full Floater - restomod projects
'77 Suzuki GS750-844cc, '77 GS400/489cc & '77 GS550/740cc projects
'62 GMC 1000 Panel Truck
'88 Suzuki Samurai TDI/Toyota swaps
'88 Toyota 4x4 pickup
User avatar
Chuck78
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 1186
Joined: 06:20 pm Nov 30 2016
Country: USA
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Aftermarket wheels / hubs to compliment fork upgrades, etc

Post by Chuck78 »

Talon's complete custom wheel builder ordering form tool is quite nice... In my eyes, these will be the best wheels you'll find:

https://talon-eng.co.uk/talon-wheel-builder/

It's an upcharge of + £80.41 for alloy, anodized alloy, or titanium nipples, if one were trying to cut costs, they could forego that option.
Talon_Custom_Wheel_Builder.jpg
Talon_Custom_Wheel_Builder.jpg (134.46 KiB) Viewed 971 times
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
'77 Suzuki PE250 & '83 Suzuki PE175 Full Floater - restomod projects
'77 Suzuki GS750-844cc, '77 GS400/489cc & '77 GS550/740cc projects
'62 GMC 1000 Panel Truck
'88 Suzuki Samurai TDI/Toyota swaps
'88 Toyota 4x4 pickup
Post Reply