Replating story U.S. Chrome - CC DO NOT READ!!

[IdahoCharley]

NOT FOR READING BY BRAD

My 00 KTM 380 cylinder was starting to show it age so I sent it off week before Thanksgiving, to US Chrome care of Eric Gorr.

The previous owner had the cylinder intake tracts cleaned and shaped with what was called "trail porting" - leaving a fairly rough surface texture - (no porting timing changes) and had bugged the backside of one of the inlet ports by getting too aggressive with the porting tool - IMHO.

I asked Eric if he would look at this area and weld-up an reshape as necessary prior to having the cylinder replated. (I had run the cylinder this way for 4 years without any problems, but it bothered me every time I performed an R&R and/or R&I on the top end.)

Eric said he would perform an evaluation and heat temper any necessary welds (special procedure for KTMs due to alloys used)

Got back the cylinder Monday and of course took a very good look over everything. The cylinder, porting, and plating look ABSOLUTELY EXCELLENT. He smoothed the previous porter's transitions and cleaned up the area in question; along with reassembling and clearancing the PV. Cylinder bagged in zip lock bag and was spotless making yesterday's reassembly quick and easy.

Purpose of this post? For those of you looking for a replate this winter - this is at least the sixth cylinder that I have sent to U.S. Chrome for replating and have been 100% happy with their work. The key may be sending it to them through Eric Gorr. Just thought I would share!

[fuzzy]

[canyncarvr]

I did NOT read this....and I never WILL again!

It's good to hear good news once in awhile!!

When riding time comes 'round for you again (what...July or somesuch?) and your bike runs like a pigdog..will you remember the warm and fuzzy (no pun intended) feeling you had LOOKING at it back in the dead of winter?

Yes...I know it's not the dead of winter btw. It hasn't even started yet!

[IdahoCharley]

Brad - likely not!! I don't expect the bike will run pigdoggy - but cylinder sure looked pretty. Gorr is one of those places like Ron Black's - you send him something to fix and he goes one or two steps beyond what you expected - towards the AWESOME side of things.

ClutchCover and I are both waiting for winter to hit this part of the country - some snow but not enough to really take the sleds out without endangering self and sled with tree stumps and rocks, etc. Likely some localized areas to play, but of course there are those sledders who have 500 -600 miles riding trails since around Turkey Day but I just can not bring myself to ride on beat-up trails that don't lead to a good powder play areas. The other self-limiting self-imposed restriction is that I don't travel over a couple of hours to chase snow. Just hopes it finds us this year!!

[canyncarvr]

I consulted my very own 8-ball (you know the shake it up, turn it over thing? I call mine AlGore):

It said: 'Glaciers melting, penguins dying, heartland frozen to death...not likely'

Sorry.

[GS]

IC,
As much as I hate to ask personal stuff, (you didn't buy that line of BS?) would you break down, roughly, the cost to have all that work done?

The plating on my 220 was a *little* 'thin' last time I peeked and I wouldn't mind having some idea as to the costs involved when using E G/US Chrome.

Just me ..... and my overwhelming nosiness.

And I certainly appreciate the useful feedback you provided on the work you had done

[Ondatrail]

A pictures worth a thousand words. I wanna see the job US Crome did, unless you got right on it and its already in the bike.

[IdahoCharley]

A pictures worth a thousand words. I wanna see the job US Crome did, unless you got right on it and its already in the bike.

I already installed it - engine was still in the bike I had just removed the top end. I guess I should have thought about taking a picture, but since there was nothing wrong (which is typically why you take a picture, right?) I put the engine back together and later thought about posting a thread.

GS - not a problem. On the invoice '$225 for Nicom cylinder plating, diamond honing, port chamfering, deck lapping and cleaning.' Also he cleaned and reinstalled my PV and set the travel limit on it which is at least as involved as the KIPS KDX valve - this is a normal part of his service (in case you haven't used him before.)

As mentioned in my original note he cleaned up the ports there was not a seperate charge for this. I did not check but I seem to recall the US Chrome website price sheet pricing the plating service at about $200. I suspect that he spent 30 minutes or more on the ports: I did not look at the Forward motion pricing on the web.

Other charges Wieseco piston kit $130 Moose Top Eng Gasket Kit $30 Top End Bearing $15 Shipping Handling Packaging and Insurance $15.

Even though not called out or charged for I also had the necessary 2 Red Silcone O-rings for the head individually packaged in Forward Motion packaging included (one packaged and marked $6.95 the other packaged and marked 5.99) . The red O-rings are typically better O-rings than the black O-rings found in some of the top end kits for KTM on the market - they appear to be the same ones used by KTM as OEM.

So bottom line was $175 for parts (very competitively priced for the KTM BTW) - $225 for the cylinder work - $15 for shipping. Money very well spent IMHO.

P.S. The lower edges on the piston had also been scraped, the cylinder passed the white oil rag test. So it really was a plug and play at assembly time.

[GS]

IC - Thanks for the informative reply. Much appreciated. Sounds like you're a happy customer. Pricing seems very fair to me also. I haven't had the opportunity to use either of those two, but might in the future. So, I'll file this away!

AND, your cyl passed the 'ol white rag test! Well, there you go!

You mentioned a scraping of the lower edge of the piston. Not sure what you mean by that, unless you're referring to machining 'burrs' left over that could gouge the wall? I always run my hands all over the things, feeling for edges before assembly...finger nails and all....but haven't ever really found anything that needed attention.

Is that what you are referring to?

Thanks again,
Greg

[IdahoCharley]

Regarding scraping the piston. Pistons tend to rock within the bore as they top out and start there downward motion. A sharp edge on the skirt of the piston will tend to try to scrap or displace the oil barrier which is separating the piston from the wall. A very light relieving (very small bevel) of the outer edge on the piston skirt is thought to reduce this tendency and aid in keeping a film of oil in this critical area.

Mechanics have been doing this for ages.



GS Wrote ....."I haven't had the opportunity to use either of those two, but might in the future. So, I'll file this away!"

Not sure which two companies you are refering to so I just attempt to clarify my understanding of how this works. FYI - Eric Gorr has his own company/shop (Forward Motion) and as you likely know Eric is well recognized in the dirt bike industry.

US Chrome is a company that plates cylinders and has numerous locations world wide. Eric Gorr has endorsed the US Chrome plating process and now has an working association with the local US Chrome plating which is located near Eric's comapny: In that he has an office/work area where he does 'his thing' to cylinders sent to him and oversees or performs specialized repairs. I do not know if he routinely goes to US Chrome i.e. daily or if it is a 2 or 3 time a week approach only that it seems to work well based upon my experience.

[GS]

Thanks for the explanation of scraping...if I understand, there is a slight radius applied to the lower contact area of the skirt so that it 'surfs' the oil film, rather than penetrating and effectively 'plowing' it off the cyl wall?

Never heard of *that* before.....and it just might make sense, to boot! Nice to learn something every day, so thats for passing it on.

I was referring to the EG and US Chrome connection. Sometimes these fairly *demanding* small-shop guys ride shotgun on the work that big outfits do for them. So, EG probably helps to ensure that plating work done on his behalf is done PROPERLY, which could provide a hidden benefit to using his services.

He almost certainly would receive more cooperation than either you or I would, should a problem with the plating arise.

Thanks for the info!!

[IdahoCharley]

You understood my explaination correctly! I thinking you correct also in the rest of your evaluation of the EG and US Chrome connection also.

[GS]

IC...said: "You understood my explanation correctly!"

Well...that's only because you explained it so well!

Thanks again!

[scheckaet]

the cylinder passed the white oil rag test

what's that?

[IdahoCharley]

My apology - should have read ...'white rag oil test....

i.e. After cylinder has been honed you clean it up well and the -good to go test - is using a light color cloth or paper towels with some oil to wipe down the cylinder. If after wiping down the complete cylinder your rag is not contaminated with anything other than the oil, then the cylinder is clean enough to install the piston into.

Others ways to check for contamination but this is a common method and your also prepping the cylinder for the piston.

[GS]

It's amazing how well an oiled or solvent-wetted white (CLEAN) rag/paper towel will loosen, reveal and remove most contaminants.

Much better than water and you won't see the rust forming as you will with water.

[scheckaet]

you won't see the rust forming as you will with water.

After I lightly scoth brite mine I put it in the dishwasher (heard that awhile back on this forum), and was at how fast the rust showed up. Freaked me out, I cleaned again with WD40 asap.

[IdahoCharley]

I've heard of people using dishwashers but I do not have gonads large enough to run a cylinder through the family dishwasher.

[RBD]

Just a side note here kids, rags are not a good tool to use in final clean-up. Rags will leave threads (or thick lint from the rag it self).

The best final clean-up before assembly is a white paper towel that as been dampened with a light oil like WD-40 or what I like to use is Marvel Mystery Oil. YES, this too will leave a small amount of a much finer lint, but even easer to dispose of.

You will know when the cylinder is clean....., when the white "paper" towel is still white with out any gray showing, it's done

Ron

[GS]

Surely the wife has some nice, clean, white, lint-free dishcloths? HAW!!

Another user of Marvel Mystery Oil! Neat stuff!

I have a friend that slides a drop or two into every tankful of gas in his Cessna 180.....and no finer, smoother-running example of that model exists anywhere.

Good advice about how to know when the clean-up is done and it's time to hide the evidence...even if it is paper towels