New Guy Here...and jetting Noob with new bike.

[MBreinin]

Hello, my name is Mike and I am a new guy. This is my first post and I apologize in advance for its length.

I picked up a really nice '04 220 last night in a trade. Bike has a Gnarly Woods pipe with a Power Core 2 silencer and Boyesen Carbon fiber reeds, as well as some other nice non-engine mods.

Ok, I rode the bike around the neighborhood (on the street, no dirt) and while it has excellent low end grunt and response, it has poor top end and it feels like is is struggling to get on the pipe. It is missing on the top end...it just feels like it won't clear up. It still has the stock airbox top and snorkle.

The bike was purchased new a year ago and has been very well maintained. I think this is a jetting/carb issue. Gas in it is premium mixed with Maxima at 32:1.

I do NOT know what jets are in it. The bike came from the north part of the state (Louisiana) down to me in New Orleans. So, I am at sea level, with around 90-100% humidity and temps in the 90s. Owner told me it was jetted a bit rich and it does certainly feel that way.

I have not pulled the plug or tried anything as I got it last night and have not had any time yet to check things out.

Based on these symptoms, where would YOU start? I don't know anything about jetting a bike carb, all of my experience is with Holley carbs on cars. I don't even know how to access the jets and the needle. So, treat me like what I am, a total NOOB.

I e-mailed the previous owner and asked him if he knew what jets were in the bike and what position the needle was in.

I have read the jetting primer and I have been searching the site. What I need, and would REALLY appreciate, would be someone taking pity on me and walking me through this. I just want the bike to run right with what is on it.

Any help, greatly appreciated!

Mike

[scheckaet]

welcome to the site , you won't find a better one for KDX.

If it was me:

1: get a manual (can get it online, top right of this forum)
2: remove the snorkel and top of the air box, let the beast breath! and try it, that should help
3: the 220 is notorious for beeing "weak" in the top end department, I can see you have a "gnarly wood". Since the 220 has plenty of low end already, usually ppl go for the rev pipe which give more on top.

What type of riding are you doing? tight single track, wide open field....? You may not need anymore top end if you're riding real tight stuff, just a matter of preference. (I personnaly prefer riding "on the pipe" kinda aggressively)

4: open the carb and tell us what jettting is in there, if it's stock it will be too rich most likely.
5: Planning on doing any mod to the engine? If you do: RB the head and the carb, you will smile after you try it! (if you dunno what RB means, check this http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=110)

That should be a good start.

Wilf

[MBreinin]

Wilf:

I pulled the seat off this morning to see if the airbox wa stock and it was. If you remove the top of the airbox, what do you do with that relay that is mounted on there?

Also, what exactly is the snorkel and where is it? I am sorry for being such a NooB.

I have a fast bike, the Husky, so I am just looking for something to play around in the dirt/woods in. Figure mostly dirt and open field kind of riding...maybe some single track if I can find it. I was immediately thinking of the Desert pipe over the Woods pipe. However, I read the Desert pipe guarantees a piston upgrade. To be honest, I don't really want to tear apart what is a pretty new bike and do a top end just yet. Just want to get this one running right and enjoy it a little.

Mike

[Indawoods]

Sounds like the KIPS is non-functional.

[MBreinin]

Oh, I just bought the manual. That thing rules! Now I, at least, know where the jets and the needle are located.

Mike

[MBreinin]

Sounds like the KIPS is non-functional.

Can it crap out on such a new bike? What do I look for with that?

Mike

[scheckaet]

Oh I forgot if you're running on the stock piston: REPLACE IT NOW with wiseco. As inda suggested open it up and check the KIPS.
It can if the top end was removed without supporting the kips shaft or if the valves are full of spoo or sumthin.

[MBreinin]

Would the KIPS make any strange noises if there were problems? Rattling noises or something? Cause there is some noise around the clutch cover area, and I though it was just a noisy clutch.

Mike

[KarlP]

A noisy clutch is pretty normal.

I did not get rid of my airbox cover. I removed the rubber snorkel in the cover and then more than doubled the size of the hole the snorkle came out of.

I concur on the piston change. KIPS operation can be partially verified by removing the slotted cover on the left side of the cylinder and observing movement on revving the motor.

Be carefull when pulling the carb or rotating it in the bike to get the bowl off. I broke the little tube the throttle cable goes through on the slide cap. Cost me $40, I believe.

If you get the jetting right it will run pretty good. It won't be a top end screamer, though. I don't think it is ported for that.

If you are kind of short on $, my opinion is that the RB modded head is the best bang for the buck. Still only $45.00, I believe. Cleans up the performance from top to bottom.

We have some real nice single track over here, almost in Mobile, AL. 2-1/2 hours from NO? I got a buddy that comes from NO to ride pretty often.

Enjoy!!

[scheckaet]

Could be, but the KDX is quite noisy anyway, hard to tell if you don't know what it should sound like when working properly. Mine didn't make much more noise when I broke the kips, till a piece got stuck in the clutch gear, there I knew sumthin was up ... but too late

[jc7622]

There may not be anyting wrong with it. Like someone else already said, 220 riders usually put the rev/desert pipe on instead of the torque/woods pipe. The 220 carb is actually smaller than the 200's carb. Less top end on the 220 (if the bikes are stock anyway).

I have a 200 with a rev pipe and wish I had a woods pipe. I need to get rid of it and get a woods pipe some day.

[Jeb]

Changing that piston out is pretty important; other folks' experiences suggest that you should change it out regardless of what pipe you have . . .

Jetting: since you're in New Orleans (sea level) and it's pretty warm these days, based on your current mods you might consider starting with a 142 on the main jet and a 42 for the pilot. You'll want to have a 140 main and a 40 and even a 38 pilot jet handy, particularly as the summer months roll by.

The comment about the RB head was a great suggestion. I have the carburetor and some Boyesen power reeds as well; these mods make a tremendous difference. I ended up with an RB modified head shaped for race gas use and it's even better but you do have to use at least some race gas for that.

Welcome to the site, keep the questions coming!

[KarlP]

Yeah, 140/40 should be real close, but you won't know 'till you try. It may already have 140/40 in it. It may have something else wrong with it, or it may be running just like a perfectly normal 220.
Did you get this bike so you could work on it?

Seriously, I'd settle on a gas oil mix (32:1 is a bit heavy on the oil, IMO), open up the air box a bit and ride it kind of gently for a while. That piston change should be seriously contemplated pretty soon. I've never had the OEM one bust, but it looks like quite a few others have. Big damage.

There is also good riding at the "sawdust piles" and at Bethel, DeSoto National Forest, 1-1/2 hours East of NO

Enjoy!!

[MBreinin]

There may not be anyting wrong with it. Like someone else already said, 220 riders usually put the rev/desert pipe on instead of the torque/woods pipe. The 220 carb is actually smaller than the 200's carb. Less top end on the 220 (if the bikes are stock anyway).

I have a 200 with a rev pipe and wish I had a woods pipe. I need to get rid of it and get a woods pipe some day.

Well, there is definitely something not right. It is missing/stuttering when it should be getting on the pipe fully. It comes up, enough to do a snap throttle wheelie in 1st and 2nd, and then when you think the "hit" is about to happen it feels like it is missing. The PO was, according to him, very meticulous about maintenance and the bike appears to be well cared for. He used Silkolene in the tranny and Maxima Synthetic mixed at 32:1. He said he knew it was jetted rich. He only had the bike for a little over a year, and he bought it new (it sat on the showroom floor apparently for quite some time). I was thinking jetting, but now I am thinking the powervalve may not be transitioning. What do you do, just remove the cover and rev the bike to see if it is actuating? The bike revs cleanly in neutral and does not feel like it is drowning or starving. He said he mostly rode the bike in tight single track conditions and never really noticed the lack of top-end. I made him ride it at my house and he acknowledged that he felt the stutter as well. I almost passed on the trade, but I figured it couldn't that hard or expensive to fix the bike....and I really wanted it.

I don't know if I want more power or not. I guess I will have to see. I want to ride with my son, who has the KTM50, so I don't need a race bike.

I just want this one to run correctly. It did improve as the bike warmed up, but still did not completely clear out. My RZ350 would do the same, but it would clear right out quickly and then pull like a demon on the pipes.

I will pull the snorkle (which I presume is that periscope looking doo-dad on top of the air-box) and open that hole up some and see what it does. I will do that first. I will also verify that the powervalve is working. If both of those check out, I will check into the carb.

Does the dealer stock jets for these bikes typically? I want this bike running correctly this weekend, if possible.

As far as the piston goes, jeez....I really don't want to change it if I don't have to. I have to do a top end on the KX80 we have so I want to do that first. However, if the Wiseco is a must do....I guess I can do it. Gonna learn on the KX first though!

Thanks for the help, keep the suggestions coming!

Mike

[scheckaet]

It did improve as the bike warmed up

I would think it's jetting

[scheckaet]

As far as the piston goes, jeez....I really don't want to change it if I don't have to. I have to do a top end on the KX80 we have so I want to do that first. However, if the Wiseco is a must do....I guess I can do it. Gonna learn on the KX first though!

Not hard and not too expensive, piston, rings and circlips, that's it. About 100 bones vs that + new head and cylinder ...

[MBreinin]

It did improve as the bike warmed up

I would think it's jetting

Yeah, I think it may be too rich. Let's see what giving it some air will do, via the airbox cover. Hopefully that will help. Honestly, I just want to enjoy the bike...not constantly wrench on it.

If anyone else has a suggestion, please give me an idea.

If the KIPS was screwed, wouldn't it have NO low end, and nothing but top end?

Mike

[jc7622]

Oh, I guess I skipped over the part about the sputtering.

[KarlP]

If the KIPS was screwed it could have no bottom OR no top, depending in what position it is stuck. Remove the slotted cover on the left side and see if it moves on revving. It is starting to sound more like a slight jetting, air flow issue. Your plan sounds good. The snorkle is indeed that rubber doodad. It can go away. At least double the size of the hole it went in. New spark plug may be in order, BR8's work fine.

You won't have to wrench on it all the time once it is set. It'll be perfect for plinking around with the kid.

It may also be that the PO just plain did not ride it hard enough. Couple of minor adjustments, talk to it nicely, wring it's neck a few times, you may be good to go.

Wiseco piston pretty soon, though.........

[MBreinin]

If the KIPS was screwed it could have no bottom OR no top, depending in what position it is stuck. Remove the slotted cover on the left side and see if it moves on revving. It is starting to sound more like a slight jetting, air flow issue. Your plan sounds good. The snorkle is indeed that rubber doodad. It can go away. At least double the size of the hole it went in. New spark plug may be in order, BR8's work fine.

You won't have to wrench on it all the time once it is set. It'll be perfect for plinking around with the kid.

It may also be that the PO just plain did not ride it hard enough. Couple of minor adjustments, talk to it nicely, wring it's neck a few times, you may be good to go.

Wiseco piston pretty soon, though.........

Thanks Karl, I will follow your plan of attack! Also, I plan on trying my pre-mix of choice, which is Amsoil Dominator mixed at 40:1. It could just need a good blowing out. It is a great bike and I had fun riding around the block, even if it was down on power. Now, I need to get it into the dirt!

I will report my findings. It looks like alot of rain this weekend, but I am going to wrench and test between the drops.

Mike