Weekend upgrades

[xagentman]

Well, This weekend my father (Wazowski) and I did our Wiseco piston upgrades. Needless to say after watching my cousins bike grenade last season were wanted the peace of mind that comes with this change. I want to thank you all for making believers out of us. That aside, the upgrade to my bike went perfectly. no problems at all. But, my Fathers bike experienced some tough times during the upgrade. a few of the head bolts streched during the torquing process and we had to remove them and replace them with some that were from my cousins bike.

Weel, in the process the threads were ruined in the top end and from the sound of it we are going to have to have it "helicoiled". Waz explained it to me and it makes sense... but, will this work with a soft aluminium top end?

Anyway, last but not least... actually it was the main reason for the post... during the Wiseco upgrade I also put new springs in the front end... .40's that I picked up earlier from MXoldtimer... and I want to say... Upgrade your springs!!! I upgraded all the power componets first and saved the forks for last... and that was a mistake. I wish I would have done this a long time ago. During the break in ride the steering response was fantastic not to mention the way the front end took the bumps and changes in terrain. I was x-static!
I also need to add that I suffered from a lot of hand fatigue while riding and after the suspension change it has practially gone away.

It seems that everytime i turn around I wish I would have followed your advice earlier. Thank you all again for your help. I am sure I will be needing it again soon. I wanted this to be a testimonial to those others who are looking for their next upgrade.. and it should be, YOUR FORKS!!

Thanks

[Wazowski]

I sent the head to Uncle Larry's machice shop. He said it was cool to helicoil and ordered the $60 kit that includes the proper drill size and tap, a half dozen coils of different lengths and the insertion tool. It's not that much less to have a shop do it and we'll have the stuff to fix another head if it happens again (heaven forbid).

My only other concern was proximity to the water jacket...he said it would be close but should take a coil all the same. I'll let him drill and insert the first one whilst I watch.

What a PITA this has turned out to be but if it runs like yours did yesterday I'll forget all about it first time out!

[Wazowski]

P.S. I really liked the heavier fork springs!

Much better feel (much to my surprise)...

Waz

[canyncarvr]

More often than not, a suspension improvement will 'make' you a better rider (allow you to excel, maybe) than some 'go-fast' mod will.

And safer....

And have more fun in the process (less strain, less tired, etc.).

And it's overlooked more often than not. When someone asks, 'How can I make my bike faster...' they aren't generally looking for the truth of the matter..and don't want to hear about it, either. There's little bling in springs, preload, sag, and clicker settings.

BTW...IS your shock sag set? DID the result show your shock spring rate to be correct? Expect the same result in properly setting the rear suspension as you found in the front.

Another BTW....a complaint of a spring feeling 'too hard' is more likely based on a too-soft spring than a too-stiff spring...much to a lot of folks' surprise.

Glad to hear of your success! Hope the helicoils work out. I'd wonder about dissimilar metal issues. Aren't most Helicoils stainless?

Count yourself lucky to have gotten the studs out in the first place! Maybe that was part of the PITA part.......

[KarlP]

I've used Helicoils in similar situations before with no ill effects (Air cooled Porsche motor where the exhaust manifold studs had pulled out of the heads) I've also used JB weld to put studs in partially stripped stud holes with success, at least until I sold it

That is absolutely true abut a soft spring feeling "hard". I guess it'll blow through the stroke too fast. It is also a bit counterintuitive that setting clickers "softer" does NOT make for a softer ride. There is a clicker setting that is just right, and I'm afraid you'll have to find it on your own.
I usually pick a 5 to 10 minute loop of typical trail and start riding around it, making adjustments and WRITING THEM DOWN each loop.

I found out the hard way that it takes 10 or 15 minutes of hard riding to get the suspension warmed up to the point it stops changing.

A good starting point is midway on rebound and compression. 4 clicks either way on R or C should be noticeable and you'll get a feel for what does what.
I'd set sag on the rear to specification first.

Be kind of carefull with suspension changes. A buddy of mine made a few clicker changes and then took off like a bat out of hell and got thrown off.

[canyncarvr]

There is a clicker setting that is just right, and I'm afraid you'll have to find it on your own.

Amen.

It's not hard to find posts with the question, 'What should they (clickers) be?'.

I guess the answer to that could be, 'Yes.'



Most likely known, but a btw: There is no rebound setting on the OEM KYB KDX fork.

[Wazowski]

There is no rebound setting on the OEM KYB KDX fork.

Correct...so why doesn't setting the compression higher result in a stiffer fork like putting in stiffer springs?

I passed physics in HS but I can't figger this out. Stiffer spring would give faster rebound maybe?

The stud came out easily...too easily. So easy in fact that I thought I could just turn them over and drive the short end in and torque the new end...but...it didn't thread enough and the streched out part of the stud didn't match the threads in the head and compromised (stripped) them. I pulled it and grabbed one ofen my nephews bike (the one with the cracked cases) and tried to drive in a fresh one but must have cross threaded it. Would'nt torque...that's when I knew...(well I actually knew before that but was in denial).

BiL is a machinist...works with aluminum all the time. I trust him when he sez helicoil will work (at least until I sell it!)

Waz

P.S. I am my own PITA, didn't have a tap the right size to freshen up the threads before I tried a new stud...

[canyncarvr]

Re: '..why doesn't setting the compression higher result in a stiffer fork like putting in stiffer springs?'

Setting the compression clickers higher/more does result in 'stiffer' ..just a different kind of 'stiffer'.

Spring rate will effect fluid flow.

Rebound 'control' in the OEM KYBs can be modulated with the use of a higher viscosity fork fluid.

Yet another BTW...but a decent number of OEM fork riders have said their fork action improved with the removal of a few of the large (probably 24s) shims in the OEM compression stack.

Along the line of 'Wow! Wish I would've done this a long time ago!', you might try a stack change. Takes a couple minutes once you get the process sorted out..and you can put them back in the stack if you don't like it!

BTW#6..clickers are LSC adjustment (lo-speed) and shims are HSC (hi-speed) adjustment.

Re: Dissimilar metals

It's not like the studs are aluminum..I mean..things were dissimilar in the first place! I just wondered about stainless.

[Wazowski]

BTW...IS your shock sag set? DID the result show your shock spring rate to be correct? Expect the same result in properly setting the rear suspension as you found in the front.

Yes but just barely...static sag is about a half inch - 10mm or so. I think that's borderline. Race sag is 100mm. I really should have a heavier spring...I make Wibbens look like Richard Simmons...

Well not really but it is a funny image!

Re:Dissimilar metals, Well if stainless don't work it will always look real nice in the scrap heap!

[canyncarvr]

At least there IS some static sag!

Richard Simmons? I thought he got hit by a car a couple weeks back..during the superbowl, wasn't it?

Yeah...I can see Wibby in a tank top and striped shorts leading an aerobics class........

[kdxquebec]

Wibby Rules!

We all need a 5.4

[skipro3]

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Wibby Rules!

We all need a 5.4

LOL!! Maybe Wibby stands for "We Obey"

[canyncarvr]

What's a 5.4?

And why am I quite sure that if I find out, I'll wish I'd never asked?

[kdxquebec]

Don't be affraid.

5.4 ?

Oh, I mean 5.4kg rear shock spring. The same rate as they use on Ford Mustang front shocks

I need one! ...Maybe?

What about a group buy?

[canyncarvr]

My 5.0 fits me perfectly, thanks.

[MXOldtimer]

I prefer 501's




.

[xagentman]

I'm 50-50 abut the whole mess

[fuzzy]

Try the helicoil, but if you know a good welder have it plugged/drilled/tapped.

[canyncarvr]

Fuzzy: What does that kind of heat do to the cylinder surface? Plating? Roundness?

[KarlP]

That stud is static- it just has to hold tension when tightening the head bolt.
What? 18 ft-lb?
If it were me I'd glue the sucker back in and move on.

'Course, I've been known to be a bit of a Hackin' Mechanic

If the JB Weld didn't work, then Plan B



((I once had a two cylinder CB175. I thought the rings were worn out. Maybe they were, maybe not. I took it apart, took the rings off and wrapped wire in the bottom of the ring grooves. Put the rings back on and put it all back together. It didn't run any better or worse.
I wonder what ever happened to that bike.
Buyer beware, huh?))