Clutch Basket Questions

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » 08:41 pm Jul 29 2007

Pulled the clutch basket out for the first time to inspect. PITA to remove the clutch hub nut without an impact wrench but finally got it . . .

Did some groove filing - they weren't very deep - so that part's taken care of, but I noticed some scratches on the outside of the basket that concern me. Matter of fact, the direction of the scratches don't make sense so I'm hoping you guys can chime in. Best I can tell, there was at some time some debris that caused this. They aren't deep enough to impact the integrity of the basket but bother me nonetheless. I had drained my tranny fluid into a bucket so I was able to sieve the fluid - nothing there concerned me. I peered/prodded throughout on the inside and don't see anything. Note the marks on the primary gear's teeth (about a third of the way back toward the crank). Also note on the third picture the scratches just inside of the gasket , starting at the "hump" where the cover mounting bolt is located - these scratches are similar in direction and depth (weird) . . .

One more question: the online manual lists 2.62mm for the fiber plate thickness: would this be minimum? I'm getting readings closer to 2.70mm . . .

Thoughts on the wear/damage? Seen anything like this before?

Click here to get to bigger shots

Post by **Rick** » 09:43 pm Jul 29 2007

Hey buddy. Id say, accourding to your pics, debris got in there at some point. Maybe when the previous owner had it? Im sure you checked out all the gears and teeth. I wonder if clutch fibers are heavy enough to collect, and stay in one spot? I doubt it. It looks like if it was debris, that the clutch plates held it back. Know what i mean? How the scratches stop at the holes for the plates. Hmmmmmmm.......

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:04 pm Jul 29 2007

The direction of them is odd.

I don't recall the history of your bike...new to you, or new?

Something related to the kicker?

Looks to be a nice filing job!!

No Jif for you!!

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 12:31 am Jul 30 2007

That many scratches on the basket would have made the tranny fluid glitter quite a bit. I'd say it was done as a half-assed attempt to machine off some casting marks at the factory. Just a guess though.

Marks on the primary gear teeth: Don't know since there doesn't seem to be matching marks on the basket gear. Looks like something drug over that spot while it was spinning rather than something grinding wrong on it.

Marks on the inside cover towards the front: Again, I'd say it was a clean-up attempt of some casting artifact being hastily removed.

Now that you have it all apart, you can for sure tell if anything is rubbing or not fitting proper. Then, whatever caused the marks is just history and shouldn't matter from here on out.

All my opinion but since I've spent a lot of time in the clutch, setting up auto clutches on 3 bikes, I do value my opinion.

Here's a link to my gallery where I have a few clutch photos during an auto clutch install. They may not be much use but offer them for your review anyway.
http://kdxrider.net/forums/modules.php? ... _photo.php

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » 04:36 am Jul 30 2007

Bike history - new to me, but the previous owner didn't ride it a whole lot (based on a a bunch of wear-type evidence everywhere on the bike) and he just wasn't the "fix-it" type. I know, anecdotal, but it's all I got. I'd say it was the first time the basket came off: the paint mark on the nut was intact and it was TIGHT, > 65 ft-lb I'm darn sure. When the wife heard the moans and screams while I worked at getting that hub nut off, she at one time asked, "If it's this hard to get off, aren't you going to have do the same thing to get it back on?" Yeah, whatever. Silly wife.

I'll give things a good going-over this evening when I piece it back together and look/listen for rubbing and ill-fitment. Maybe a few others will have the time to comment by then as well. I think whatever caused whichever damage is long-gone or I'd see or feel something.

If those marks were made by Kaw I'm not very impressed, not at all . . .

your comments (and pictures), however, are much appreciated!

And the Jif thing - if it makes things easier in getting that blasted nut back on, the wife's got some in the cupboard . . .

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 08:31 am Jul 30 2007

I used a long bar through a hole in the rear sprocket and across the swing arm to lock up the drive train. Then put the bike in 3rd gear. It worked to get the nut both on and off. It was a stiff, stainless steel bar used from a fooseball table if you aren't sure what I'm talking about. Another way is to take the counter shaft sprocket cover off and by jambing something between the chain and sprocket, lock up the drive train. Used a pair of channel locks on the chain for that once.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:15 am Jul 30 2007

RE: All this jamming up stuff....

Make sure nothing it going to slip to put the force against a spoke!

The marks on the basket don't seem at all relative to clutch movement, would you say? The apparently separate marks would be made 90º to rotation of the basket how? Or, looking at it another way...put something against the basket at engine speeds and just TRY to imagine what it would take in the way of movement to make those marks at such an angle.

Nothing.

That leaves something done to the basket when it was removed, or some movement that took place at a relatively slow basket speed.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 01:09 pm Jul 30 2007

From someone that knows stuff:

Mr. Black wrote:Those marks are from a large vertical belt sander with a 90* horizontal table. When the clutch basket was die-cast (factory) there is a "flash" from the parting line where the two mold dies come together.

Then they hit the flash parting line smooth with the belt sander.

'Thar 'ya go!!

Thanks Mr. Black!!

Used by permission. All rights reserved. Plagiarism will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

IdahoCharley · Post by **IdahoCharley** » 02:41 pm Jul 30 2007

canyncarvr wrote:From someone that knows stuff:

Mr. Black wrote:Those marks are from a large vertical belt sander with a 90* horizontal table. When the clutch basket was die-cast (factory) there is a "flash" from the parting line where the two mold dies come together.

Then they hit the flash parting line smooth with the belt sander.
'Thar 'ya go!!

Thanks Mr. Black!!

Used by permission. All rights reserved. Plagiarism will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

I'm not impressed either if Mr. Black is correct. Kaw should be performing a better clean-up on flashing than a method which leaves a surface looking like that.

Post by **Indawoods** » 02:53 pm Jul 30 2007

Not really a bling part.... so it doesn't bother me a bit.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 03:02 pm Jul 30 2007

re: '..looking like that..'

Yeah. Me, too.

I realize it's not a show part..still, have SOME care in the final result.

I did wonder if the harsh removal method was chosen on purpose...maybe allowing the removal of flash and blend of mold lines without the 'melt' that may occur with a finer grit and faster moving machine?

Or simply a matter of time/speed. You get a lot more wood removed with a deep cutting sharply ground chain on a saw than the opposite. Doesn't leave a purty cut...but it cuts quick!

Maybe it's Kaw's improved basket oiling design!

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 05:36 pm Jul 30 2007

skipro3 wrote: I'd say it was done as a half-assed attempt to machine off some casting marks at the factory.

Gee, sounds like I waz right!! And I didn't even need to check with Mr. Black, White, Yellow or Brown either!
Thank you , thankyouverymuch. I'll be here all week.

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » 06:08 pm Jul 30 2007

No, the marks didn't make sense given their orientation. The only thing that I could fathom was something was stuck parallel to the primary gear teeth (between the teeth, perhaps) and everytime it came 'round it made a mark where ever the basket happened to be. Over time, many marks. Far-fetched I know, but I couldn't imagine it being a factory flaw, cosmetic or not.

Great stuff, guys, thank a $mil.

Real quick:

*2.62mm "spec" per the online manual for the fiber plate thickness, I'm getting 2.68-2.70mm. OK? I'd assume so (but you know what they say assuming will get you . . . )

*Reassembly - everything's still oiled up pretty good and I'm not replacing anything. Do I need to "soak" things before installing the works back into place?

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 06:18 pm Jul 30 2007

Your clutch material thickness is fine. If you are in good with the local Kaw shop, go in with your scale and check a new one if they have one in stock just to compare and ease your mind.

No need to soak. They are already saturated with oil if they are being re-used.

Just check one last time for any plate warp. If you aren't sure how, use a piece of glass to lay a clutch plate on, then measure warp with a feeler gauge. Your manual will spec the range for you. Do this just prior to install just to be sure no one had an accident with your plates and forgot to tell you about it. (No, my kids NEVER touch daddy's things in the garage. they don't know how the doggy's teeth marks got there. )

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » 08:52 pm Jul 30 2007

Great!

I reassembled everything taking some pics along the way. Tightened the clutch hub nut to 65 ft-lb by putting the bike in gear, pressing the rear brake peddle firmly as I tightened. No question that the force required to remove that nut in the first place FAR exceeded the 65ft-lb . . .

reinstalled the clutch cover/clutch cable, added my transmission fluid, put the bike in neutral, started her up and allowed things to warm up, put her in gear, and . . .

SUCCESS!! Smoother gear engagement and take off so filing those notches definately helped. Changed some gears, stopped/took off several times, stopped the engine and restarted it in gear . . . all seems well!

I added some text to the pics I took and will create a new thread that links to them, maybe it will help someone some day.

Flying W · Post by **Flying W** » 10:28 pm Jul 30 2007

Jeb wrote:stopped the engine and restarted it in gear

Yours was hard-starting in gear? If mine is hard-starting in gear, does that mean the basket is notched (I have to say I already looked at the basket and couldn't see notches...but then I run into trees)?

I can kick the 220 over in gear, but my wife can't and it's her ride so if I could make the problem go away then it will bode well for me. She can pull in the clutch to coast down a steep trail with the engine off and the bike will not roll.

Cable tension and lever play are in spec. The bike had very low hours on it when we bought it this last winter.

What say you?

AZRickD · Post by **AZRickD** » 11:43 pm Jul 30 2007

I have the exact same marks on my basket.

I'd post a pic, but it would be redundant.

I'm thinkin' kicker.

Rick

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » 04:48 am Jul 31 2007

Flying W wrote:
Jeb wrote:stopped the engine and restarted it in gear
Yours was hard-starting in gear? If mine is hard-starting in gear, does that mean the basket is notched (I have to say I already looked at the basket and couldn't see notches...but then I run into trees)?

I can kick the 220 over in gear, but my wife can't and it's her ride so if I could make the problem go away then it will bode well for me. She can pull in the clutch to coast down a steep trail with the engine off and the bike will not roll.

Cable tension and lever play are in spec. The bike had very low hours on it when we bought it this last winter.

What say you?

Neutral is still easier, but before sometimes it would stick enough to want to move while I kick started it. I believe with those little notches it's that much harder to get the plates to separate.

The other test was to put it in gear, pull in the clutch, and push the bike. That's easier, too (it still drags some - but that's not an abnormal condition).

If you can't roll the bike down a steep trail with the engine off I say it's worth inspecting . . .

BTW I couldn't see the notches until I took the basket out and apart.

Flying W · Post by **Flying W** » 09:36 am Jul 31 2007

Jeb wrote:BTW I couldn't see the notches until I took the basket out and apart.

Ooh...okay, I better pull ours apart. Thanks for the BTW!

Post by **Rick** » 08:27 pm Jul 31 2007

I had the same problems. After Expert KDXRIDER.NET guidance, I did the same as Jeb. Works Great now!