tips re-installng swingarm?

[KanuckKDX]

I removed the swingarm to check and service all the bearings in the lower part of the rear suspension (a few fell apart since I have never serviced them ) and now have installed a bunch of new bearings and seals. Servicing these will be an annual event from now on. It's been an expensive winter - new sprockets and chain, a bunch of new bearings and seals, new rear fender, change the oil in the forks,...

But re-installling the swingarm was a bear. I couldn't do it alone - it took 2 of us and a little ingenuity. We needed to use a pry bar appropriately and we popped it back together in a few minutes working together.

Is there anything I need to know that might make this a job I can do alone? Or is it just one of those jobs that requires 2 people?

[scheckaet]

I did mine this winter alone. I think the trick is to have enough grease on to last till the next time and stop the axel and such from seizing, makes the job easy.

[KDXer]

I didn't think it was very difficult at all. I did it on my own also. Are you sure the bearings and seal were all pressed in deep enough ??

[KanuckKDX]

I didn't think it was very difficult at all. I did it on my own also. Are you sure the bearings and seal were all pressed in deep enough ??

Is it possible the frame gets compressed on these things if the falls are violent enough? There just wasn't enough room to fit it in between the frame. We used the pry bar on the swing arm to bend the swingarm just enough to slip it in.

You're right about compressing the seals enough - it was the seal that kept me from sliding in, so I compressed them with my vice to be sure they were seated as far as possible but it didn't help.

I guess I just have a tough fit and that's life.

[cfspawn]

I agree mine was easy as well. Make sure your bearings and the little cups are greased so they stay on when installing

[wanaride]

Yep, easy for me too. Regular greasing must help.

[canyncarvr]

KayD suggested the bearings might not have been seated.

The reply to that (quoted even) said nothing about it.

'tough fit, that's life'?

Doubt it.

Did you have to pry the swingarm OUT?

Doubt it.


Chances are, KayD is correct. When torque was applied to the pivot pin nut, maybe the bearings moved to where they were supposed to be in the first place...but from pressure applied to the INNER race. That is very hard on, indeed often fatal to bearings.

That would be too bad in a very large way. A lot of wasted money and time.

If you packed the seals with grease as you should, that can make the fit close, but no need for prying things, no need for two people.

[KanuckKDX]

KayD suggested the bearings might not have been seated.

The reply to that (quoted even) said nothing about it.

'tough fit, that's life'?

Doubt it.

CC never leaves me doubt as to what he thinks. This straight shooting from the hip makes this site fun to use.

No - I didn't answer directly. But the bearings were "seated" smack in the middle of the swingarm arms. I measured. But I had already re-installed the swingarm once with the old bearings and seals- the originals. It was the same. As far seating the seals, I was really careful to make everything as tight and narrow as I could recognizing that if the seals are not seated, they will take up vaulable space.

Tough fit? Really tough. Too tight by at least 2mm and impossible to fit in alone.

Did you have to pry the swingarm OUT?

Doubt it.

As a matter of fact, it took the equivalent amount of work to remove the swingarm. In the removal I have the advantage of the leverage of the swingarm and could work it loose with sufficient elbow grease and tugging and wobbling and finagling and sweat. Much easier than installing but still clearly well wedged in and held with friction.

Don't doubt it - the advice I get herein is too good for me to ask for advice when the answer should be clear, even to novices like me. I hate asking stupid questions.

Chances are, KayD is correct. When torque was applied to the pivot pin nut, maybe the bearings moved to where they were supposed to be in the first place...but from pressure applied to the INNER race. That is very hard on, indeed often fatal to bearings.

That would be too bad in a very large way. A lot of wasted money and time.

If you packed the seals with grease as you should, that can make the fit close, but no need for prying things, no need for two people.

Now here I may need a slap upside the head. First, the nut and the pivot pin head are outside the frame and put pressure on the frame when torqued tight. It's hard to see how they would put any pressure on the seals. And if they did, they would put pressure to slide the sleeves or inner races through the bearings, not against the bearings at all. In any case, those bearings don't move easily and the races slide easily. I can't fathom moving bearings with pressure sideways on the races.

But I may be all wet. Or CC may be smoking that stuff again.

On a related theme: When I cleaned up after my nephew who actually is the one I am trying to teach how to maintain the bike so he took the rear supension all apart, I found two washer-like shims that obviously fit somewhere in the rear suspension since that's all we had apart at the time.

Des anyone know where they go? I looked at the microfiche and can't find them.

Thanks for all your help on this. I think I will just need help installing the swingarm - really. Don't doubt it.

[canyncarvr]

Did you have both the rear suspension (Unitrack) and swingarm out?

Are your pull rods OEM? Aftermarket rods (Devol for example) use shim-type washers (very thin). Four of 'em. Like the KX250 has.

You mention the bearings being 'smack in the middle'. That means you used aftermarket replacements? OEM is two bearings on each side with a space in the middle. Which, btw, allows for handy placement of a grease fitting.

You say 'washers'. They look like flat washers? Yes, you said 'shim', but I want to be sure I understand.

Thanks for very clear answers, too! No 'assumin' required!

Next time, maybe a little screw jack/bottle jack affair could be used to slightly spread things? Heck...a carefully measured piece of wood would work, too. Tap it into place (wedge it kind of), gain a fraction of a measure.

You are right about the lack of pressure on the inner bearing races. I had wheel bearings in mind..with a spacer the diameter of the inner race.

Those washers GOTTA be bugging you. Maybe they were just extras from some other fixin'?

[quailchaser]

No "washers" or "shims" in the fisheeee.

Some of the Aftermarket linkage kits fit more than one application and include "xtra" parts... Makes life fun!






Pictures of your non fitment would help, as I have no clue based on the description. Done many a swing arm on many a different bikes...The only time I've experienced difficulty in fitment (specifically: only in removal) is in extreem cases of disrepair (aka...lack of maint, lots o rust). It should fit...key word in there--should.

[KDXer]

Call me stupid but would he not be better to take a fine file and remove the 'extra' material making it difficult to refit ?? The reason I"m thinking that is because, wouldn't the fact the swingarm is being basically forced in be a cause for bind ??

Question, once the swingarm if forced into place and torqued down, is it super easy to move the swingarm up and down ??

Those washers/shims sound like the ones that come with the All-Balls kits and from what I was informed they are for KX250s etc and not used with the KDX setup.

[KanuckKDX]

All the answers at once:

I will look at filing off material.

I assumed the bike is all stock. I don't have any way of knowing.

I may have terribly misled CC. I am talking about bearings in the fiche above #92046. There is only one bearing each side in this bike. Perhaps I mispeak in my original post.

Shims may be a poor description. These very thin washers are high quality steel and very thin. I will find a place to put them. They are such a high quality part I must install them somewhere. They are pretty naked there in the extra parts drawer!

the possiblity of spreading the thing with a little ingenuity is what I will look at next time it's off.

Thanks for all the help. You all make it fun to learn.

Tedd

[KanuckKDX]

http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/400_0331/ ... arent=4730

part # 92180 is what I have. Now I can try and put them back.

[canyncarvr]

I'm lost.

I don't know what 32037 even is (well, besides what it SAYS I mean), and I cannot tell from the fiche where it goes.

Upper? Lower?

Obviously the differences in the 'E' were missed in this thread.

So...you know where the missing parts are supposed to go, correct?

[KanuckKDX]

I'm lost.

I don't know what 32037 even is (well, besides what it SAYS I mean), and I cannot tell from the fiche where it goes.

Upper? Lower?

Obviously the differences in the 'E' were missed in this thread.

So...you know where the missing parts are supposed to go, correct?

Yes, I know where they go.

#32037 goes on to the frame before I can mount the swing arm with the rest of the lower shock mount etc. FWIW it mounts at "C" on the frame real low.

But who really cares. I know where these shims go and I will put them back next time I remove the swingarm next fall or winter before putting it away.

Thanks for helping. And for making this site entertainment.

Do you suppose part of my problem is my E bike is different than your E bike?

[danfree]

Practically have the bike damn near tore apart now. To get it cleaned up better, I keep removing parts. Swingarm, rear shock, suspension links, seat, gas tank, rear fender. All spread out in various parts of my garage. It's fun though. Dis-ass'y is the easy part, I hope I don't have too many parts left over when it goes back together. Any rate, the manual doesn't mention greasing the pivot/ mounting bolts for the linkage, shock mounts, swingarm, etc. Should I use moly grease (aka bearing grease) or anti sieze? Should I just leave them dry?

[KanuckKDX]

Anti sieze and not grease on the pivot bolt. I believe all these bolts pass through an inner race and I find they pick up grease as they pass through the first dust seal so mine are always greased by accident so it's not an issue.

I have seen lots of greased pivot bolts though and can't imagine any problem. I doubt you could keep them dry if you grease all those bearings and replace the dust seels.

[danfree]

That sounds logical. I can slop the moly grease in the bearings. I will put anti-seize on the I.D. of the bushing (inner race). Do you recommend anti-seize on the bolt threads too? I have never had troubles with anything except Stainless Steel as far as galling is concerned. But since it is bolt that gets removed and installed over and over, maybe it's not a bad idea. Of course the torque values may be for a dry thread. Has anyone had trouble with these nuts and bolts after maintenance?

[KanuckKDX]

I put thread locker on when it's spec'd. I put anti sieze on the spark plug and leave all my other threads "dry". I find lots of my bolts have grease on the threads and wipe the threads well but rarely wash the threads with cleaner after they're inserted.

I would put anti sieze on any bolt or nut I found was corroded on. Lots of steel bolts threaded into aluminum seem to get badly stuck and those are the ones I watch and have put anti sieze on. I have an old bike and have never completely pulled it apart so I still find the occasional sticky bolt or nut.

But I wouldn't put anti sieze on those inner races. They won't get stuck between now and the next time you remove them within a year to regrease the bearing. I have only had inner races rust onto the bearings, never the bolt. That happens only when I fail to maintain the bike or buy one from someone.

The pivot bolt tends to get stuck in the case since it's steel on aluminum. That's where I cover the bolt with anti sieze.

Torque values are for dry threads - I have read specs somewhere for adjusting torque for greasy threads. But I just reduce the torque by feel except for threads like my axles which I torque to spec. I look up the values though and tighten high when the spec is high and low when it's low. I get my suspension pretty close to spec every time. But my torque wrench was only $49 so I figure it's not that accurate.