Running out of fuel

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 08:29 pm Mar 22 2007

Dumb question !

Will running out of fuel damage the rings ?
I was riding today and the bike quit running- while still moving I turned on reserve but the bike did not recover.
After stopped, first kick fired the bike up like nothing happened but then
I lost alot of top end power.
I went and got more fuel put the pet cock back on run, not reserve and picked up a little power but still not the same.
My carb has the MOD and was jetted 42/160 and seemed kind of odd
the large main jet but the bike ran very well with the 160 and a 158
had the same effect as todays problem.
The power difference was huge running the 160 vs the 158
Any ideas???

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » 08:45 pm Mar 22 2007

running out of fuel puts the engine a very lean condition. It can do some damage. A sudden lean condition when the engine is very hot can cause a seize. Who's mod do you have? did they send it back with a 158? yup, seems kind of big. what is your elevation? what do your plugs look like? do you fowl often? get much spooge out of your exhaust. Premix ratio?

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 08:50 pm Mar 22 2007

55 degrees mid to low throttle when happened 700 ft
bike was warm but not hot

Post by **Rick** » 08:56 pm Mar 22 2007

When was the last time you used reserve? Maybe there was some gunk in the petcock, and it got loosened up when you put it in reserve? Maybe its still in there? Just a thought.

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 09:17 pm Mar 22 2007

reserve was used last week.

Post by **Rick** » 09:21 pm Mar 22 2007

Hmmmmmmm

Post by **Indawoods** » 09:28 pm Mar 22 2007

If the fuel was not mixed properly before running that day... a lean condition could have occurred. Always grab a handful of front brake and push up and down a few times hard to mix the fuel.

I do not know your situation but I was just throwing it out there...

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 09:44 pm Mar 22 2007

The fuel was a fresh mix same day last weekend and today both.
Can running out of fuel damage rings ?
Worn rings seem like a lean condition ?
Maybe explain why the 160 main jet worked so well.
The bike was running great.
Wheel lift with a tad of effort in 5 gear 4th easy.
Now, 3rd maybe
Huge loss but sill seems to run smooth

K D · Post by **K D** » 08:06 am Mar 23 2007

TWMOODY
Your first post imply's that you let the motor continue to spin under compression while waiting for it to pick up fuel after switching to reserve, how long? No fuel=no lubriction.

radonc73 · Post by **radonc73** » 10:37 am Mar 23 2007

I run out of gas at least a couple of times a year, I have had no damage that I know of. I am sure it is not a good thing but unless it happens all the time I would think your are alright.

IdahoCharley · Post by **IdahoCharley** » 12:23 pm Mar 23 2007

radonc73 wrote:I run out of gas at least a couple of times a year, I have had no damage that I know of. I am sure it is not a good thing but unless it happens all the time I would think your are alright.

This is my feeling also - If your screaming your engine going up a dune or another high load - high engine speed condition; when you run out of fuel then it is not good.

The rings are very hard and will not just wear away due to a short period of minimal oil. Going "lean" in a very high load situation may cause problems with the piston (hole) or a seizing of the engine - but from what you described it seemed like you ran out of gas at a relatively low engine speed.

If your convinced you have lost power and everything like the filter, carb, reeds (if your engine "popped"/backfired when it went lean the reeds could be damaged) pull the plug. If there is any molten metal particles pull the head and check the top of the piston.

P.S. Would be wise to perform a compression check prior to removing the head.

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 10:25 pm Mar 23 2007

I found the culprit !

Kips sticking bad, right side KIPS rod has a rubber o-ring causing
the kips system to bind very bad.
I had to pry the rod out of the cylinder to get it out and it wouldn't
go back in unil I removed the o-ring.
With out the o-ring it has smooth operation.
I think I'm just going to pitch it and deal with an occasional
cleaning of the center shaft gear.
Not sure why running out of fuel caused this to stick but it did.
Any body ever run into this before?

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » 09:38 am Mar 25 2007

Just curious Moody, Just wondering what size front and rear sprockets you have to pull those 5th gear wheelies?

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 02:26 pm Mar 25 2007

Re: 'right side KIPS rod has a rubber o-ring..'

Kaw didn't always use an o-ring there. It is referred to as 'packing' and used to be a woven/fibrous material. Order the PN from Kaw and an o-ring is what you will get.

If related to FOD, try cleaning out the rod bore. Use some sand paper wrapped around a drill bit (example..used before by a KDX'r that had problems with plating flash in his RH rod bore).

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 10:40 pm Mar 25 2007

I cleaned it out with some wet dry sand paper and a make shift bolt cut down the center and a drill.
Washed it down with soap and hot water before reinstalling.
Kips works good now but still gotta work on the jetting now
that it's working the way it should.

Gears are 48/13

Wudscrasher · Post by **Wudscrasher** » 11:25 pm Mar 25 2007

My 2-cents: I will often turn the gas (petcock) off while the engine is running after doing routine maintenance so the float bowl will be empty. The RPM's will increase right before shut-off. This is a normal procedure so you won't have gas sitting in the float. So, no, it shouldn't hurt the engine at all to run out of gas. No gas, no engine run - have gas, engine run. Simple?

Have you guys ever pulled the petcock and looked at the 2 tubes relating to the main and reserve? Is there a friggin difference? Honestly? It looks like if you just left the petcock on reserve - who cares? Is it just to let you know you're low on fuel? It's all I can figure...

--C.J.

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 11:33 pm Mar 25 2007

Is there a difference?

Yeah, one is like twice as friggen long as the other

Post by **Mr. Wibbens** » 11:35 pm Mar 25 2007

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 01:39 am Mar 26 2007

Is it just to let you know you're low on fuel?

Well...friggin'! FRIggin' FRIGGin' FRIGGIN'!!!!

Scenario #1. You have your petcock set to 'On'. You're about 20 miles from your truck when you need to switch to reserve. Dang! Forgot to fill up after lunch! Head back. GET back. Life is good.

Scenario #2. You have your petcock set to 'RES'. You're about 20 miles from your truck when you need to switch to the other reserve!! Dang! Forgot to fill up after lunch!

Ooops.

Who cares?

Head back..walking. But...you don't GET back. It gets dark. You make a wrong turn in the cloudless, cold, dark night. You trip on a stone, fall and are knocked unconscious. Did I say it was cold?

Praise the Lord you don't die from hypothermia!!! Your buddies started looking for you when it got late and you hadn't returned. They found you!!

'Cept you'd been dead for hours from bleeding outta' that gnarly, burly gash on your head......

Life? It's not good no 'moh. It's gone.

TWMOODY · Post by **TWMOODY** » 12:35 pm Mar 26 2007

CC
You ever think of taking up a position as a novel writer ?
All the scenarios you come up with.
You would make good money !

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Running out of fuel

Running out of fuel