Anyone running a projected nose plug?
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Anyone running a projected nose plug?
Any thoughts on running a projected nose plug, such as the BPR8ES? I have seen a few two stroke bikes running these plugs, and have read good things about their characteristics.
Projected nose plugs can stay warm under light throttle low speed situations to avoid fouling, and can keep cool during high speed operation from being in the direct intake charge path... Sounds good to me, but I'm not an engineer. I read also that it may make the timing appear to be advanced slightly due to activating the flame front closer to the top of the piston.
Not sure if this is something others have tried and liked, all clearance issues between the piston and the electrode taken into account. Then again, on one site, can't remember where, I read that the insulator might disintegrate and fubar the motor. My weed whacker as an extended nose, my scooter has one BP6HS, why cant the KDX get one?
Projected nose plugs can stay warm under light throttle low speed situations to avoid fouling, and can keep cool during high speed operation from being in the direct intake charge path... Sounds good to me, but I'm not an engineer. I read also that it may make the timing appear to be advanced slightly due to activating the flame front closer to the top of the piston.
Not sure if this is something others have tried and liked, all clearance issues between the piston and the electrode taken into account. Then again, on one site, can't remember where, I read that the insulator might disintegrate and fubar the motor. My weed whacker as an extended nose, my scooter has one BP6HS, why cant the KDX get one?
FAZ
- canyncarvr
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Yes. I have a thought on the matter.
Absolutely do not do it!
I had some correspondence with NGK about these 'P' plugs a few years ago. One of their 'techs' obliged me with a response (that I lost in a system crash long ago) that said, 'Absolutely do not do it!'
...which is where my thoughts on running a projected nose plug came from.
A KDX that is even 1/2-way decently jetted...doesn't have to be spot on...can run a plain old -ES plug with absolutely NO fouling problems for WAY longer than it should be in the bike...I mean years.
Absolutely do not do it!
I had some correspondence with NGK about these 'P' plugs a few years ago. One of their 'techs' obliged me with a response (that I lost in a system crash long ago) that said, 'Absolutely do not do it!'
...which is where my thoughts on running a projected nose plug came from.
A KDX that is even 1/2-way decently jetted...doesn't have to be spot on...can run a plain old -ES plug with absolutely NO fouling problems for WAY longer than it should be in the bike...I mean years.
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- Roland C
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- canyncarvr
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Yeah...lots of different kinds of plugs...
Iridium (iridium is a precious metal that is 6 times harder and 8 times stronger than platinum), platinum (its long life is because of platinums high melting point), platinum ground electrode plugs and/or center electrode plugs, fine wire (1.1mm. Fine wire center electrodes operate better: A smaller center electrode requires less voltage to jump the gap, a smaller center electrodes reduces quenching), ultrafine wire (.7mm)..
From less than $2 to considerably more $$. Likely a matter of diminishing returns on a one-each pump fueled engine.
IMO, my -EG plugged bike runs noticeably better than it does with an -ES plug. Would it run better with an EV, EGV, EIX, or XYZ plug? Maybe. I doubt it. Doesn't matter 'cuz I'm not going to buy one of them...my particular price-point is reached with the -EG.
BUT...when an NGK tech tells me that every week he has broken 2-stroke parts on his desk sent to him by riders wanting NGK to pay for the rebuild..and every time he tells them the same thing, 'You ran a specifically NOT recommended (projected tip) plug. Sorry.'
..I'm not going to use one.
BTW...run a KDX model thru the NGK website and they recommend only two plugs, the -ES and the iridium EIX, both gapped to .028"
Well th'ar 'ya go. I gap mine to .030" because I think it makes a difference. THAT must mean, therefore, that NGK is full of it!!!
RUN that stuck-out-nose plug!!!!
Iridium (iridium is a precious metal that is 6 times harder and 8 times stronger than platinum), platinum (its long life is because of platinums high melting point), platinum ground electrode plugs and/or center electrode plugs, fine wire (1.1mm. Fine wire center electrodes operate better: A smaller center electrode requires less voltage to jump the gap, a smaller center electrodes reduces quenching), ultrafine wire (.7mm)..
From less than $2 to considerably more $$. Likely a matter of diminishing returns on a one-each pump fueled engine.
IMO, my -EG plugged bike runs noticeably better than it does with an -ES plug. Would it run better with an EV, EGV, EIX, or XYZ plug? Maybe. I doubt it. Doesn't matter 'cuz I'm not going to buy one of them...my particular price-point is reached with the -EG.
BUT...when an NGK tech tells me that every week he has broken 2-stroke parts on his desk sent to him by riders wanting NGK to pay for the rebuild..and every time he tells them the same thing, 'You ran a specifically NOT recommended (projected tip) plug. Sorry.'
..I'm not going to use one.
BTW...run a KDX model thru the NGK website and they recommend only two plugs, the -ES and the iridium EIX, both gapped to .028"
Well th'ar 'ya go. I gap mine to .030" because I think it makes a difference. THAT must mean, therefore, that NGK is full of it!!!
RUN that stuck-out-nose plug!!!!
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I think a carb and head trip to Ron will make my plugs last a lot longer.
CC, you talked me outta running the "P" model plugs, I'm skeeeeerrrttt now!! If NGK says "Do not run this plug even if you are the last person on the mountain slope with your KDX before the avalanche starts so you can ride down to save your life!", I will not run the plug. I will say two hail mary's and an our father for pennance due to my misguided evil thoughts of even thinking of running the projected nose plug. I will not even ride next to a guy who I suspect has a projected nose plug in his bike.
Standard S and Fine wire G =
Projected nose =
CC, you talked me outta running the "P" model plugs, I'm skeeeeerrrttt now!! If NGK says "Do not run this plug even if you are the last person on the mountain slope with your KDX before the avalanche starts so you can ride down to save your life!", I will not run the plug. I will say two hail mary's and an our father for pennance due to my misguided evil thoughts of even thinking of running the projected nose plug. I will not even ride next to a guy who I suspect has a projected nose plug in his bike.
Standard S and Fine wire G =
Projected nose =
FAZ
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Speaking of which....my KX125 warms up almost immediately. I can blip the throttle a dozen times and it's good to go. I always warm it a little longer than that, but I mean it runs clean from the get-go. The KDX, on the other hand, takes much longer to run clean and I generally have to get moving and acually shift some gears to get it running clean. Once warmed, it runs good. My gut feeling is that I'm still rich but I'm wondering if this is just a KDX ignition vs. KX ignition thing or what it might be?canyncarvr wrote: A KDX that is even 1/2-way decently jetted...doesn't have to be spot on...can run a plain old -ES plug with absolutely NO fouling problems for WAY longer than it should be in the bike...I mean years.
Does your KDX run clean right away or does it require a few minutes warm-up?
1999 KDX 200
2001 KDX 220
2002 RM 134
2004 KX 125
2001 KDX 220
2002 RM 134
2004 KX 125
- canyncarvr
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As Mr. Welk used to say....
Uh ONE...
Re: '..I will not even...'
SEE to it that you DON'T! We got people WATCHIN' YOU!
...and Uh TWO..
Re: 'Does your KDX run clean right away...'
Depends. Usually I start my bike, let it sit and idle for quite a bit while I'm strapping on all my crap...er...I mean gear. 4-5 minutes? In such a case it will likely 4-stroke some when I take off..nothing major. I don't WOT it to 'clear' it out. It takes care of itself in a very short distance.
Sometimes I only let it warm up from a choke-cold start for 30 seconds or so..then ride it easy for a bit to warm it up goot. Then it's clean the whole way.
There isn't any choking/burbling/goobers going on for 1/2 a mile or anything...ever.
..and Mr. Feenie sings!!!
Dang...I never liked that guy!!
Uh ONE...
Re: '..I will not even...'
SEE to it that you DON'T! We got people WATCHIN' YOU!
...and Uh TWO..
Re: 'Does your KDX run clean right away...'
Depends. Usually I start my bike, let it sit and idle for quite a bit while I'm strapping on all my crap...er...I mean gear. 4-5 minutes? In such a case it will likely 4-stroke some when I take off..nothing major. I don't WOT it to 'clear' it out. It takes care of itself in a very short distance.
Sometimes I only let it warm up from a choke-cold start for 30 seconds or so..then ride it easy for a bit to warm it up goot. Then it's clean the whole way.
There isn't any choking/burbling/goobers going on for 1/2 a mile or anything...ever.
..and Mr. Feenie sings!!!
Dang...I never liked that guy!!
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!
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Mine smokes quite a bit (more than the KX) and does burble for about a minute or maybe two, then cleans up. Last summer, I leaned it out 1 size on both jets and felt like I lost power- it just didn't run as good as with the fatter jets, so I put them back in and just wait for it to clear up. I might be asking too much of the KDX to run as sharp and clean as the KX? The KX is like a fresh razor, the KDX is like a butter knife.canyncarvr wrote:
There isn't any choking/burbling/goobers going on for 1/2 a mile or anything...ever.
FWIW, in spite of the differences in running, I have never, ever fouled a plug in the KDX and the KX fouls one every once in awhile (6-10 rides?). Also, the KDX liked the BR7 plug better, but I'm back to running a BR8 'cause that's what I run in the KX and it just makes it easier.
1999 KDX 200
2001 KDX 220
2002 RM 134
2004 KX 125
2001 KDX 220
2002 RM 134
2004 KX 125
- canyncarvr
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Are you still running a 'B' needle in the KDX? Ooops.
Never jet for smoke or spoo.
But...you knew that. Sometimes smokin' is just your bike's way of saying it's happy!
Happy is good!
Never jet for smoke or spoo.
But...you knew that. Sometimes smokin' is just your bike's way of saying it's happy!
Happy is good!
Consider the source
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Stock needle. I just haven't ponied up to pay $8 shipping on a $4 needle yet.canyncarvr wrote:Are you still running a 'B' needle in the KDX? Ooops.
Never jet for smoke or spoo.
Not jetting for the smoke, just commenting on the fact that it burbles and smokes for a bit. As you know, I run more 1/2 throttle and up, than 1/2 throttle and below, so I really don't mind it being a little rich most of the time.
1999 KDX 200
2001 KDX 220
2002 RM 134
2004 KX 125
2001 KDX 220
2002 RM 134
2004 KX 125
- canyncarvr
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The smoke/spoo comment was more for the casual other-reader..
One of the things I suspect that makes the KX sharper is the power-jet (or whatever they call it) whizbanger carb. I'd guess it's easier (more forgiving) to figure out the mechanical jetting part (jets, needles, clips, etc) when you know you can just squirt fuel in when the throttle is tromped!
Well...don't know that your KX does or does not have that. Ski's does. It's an...uh...'02 I think?
I'm sure if you don't care for the $8 shipping and $4 part, you could order MORE .0002oz. very small parts...and pay even MORE shipping!!
Besides...I think you left out the 'HANDLING' part of that $8!
I was just looking up some of JD's comments regarding the 'B' needled KDX to answer another question. Basically he figured the 'B' to be pretty much a loser...that taper resulting in such a confusing too lean, then too rich, then too lean again situation as to make jetting with it a wild goose chase.
One of the things I suspect that makes the KX sharper is the power-jet (or whatever they call it) whizbanger carb. I'd guess it's easier (more forgiving) to figure out the mechanical jetting part (jets, needles, clips, etc) when you know you can just squirt fuel in when the throttle is tromped!
Well...don't know that your KX does or does not have that. Ski's does. It's an...uh...'02 I think?
I'm sure if you don't care for the $8 shipping and $4 part, you could order MORE .0002oz. very small parts...and pay even MORE shipping!!
Besides...I think you left out the 'HANDLING' part of that $8!
I was just looking up some of JD's comments regarding the 'B' needled KDX to answer another question. Basically he figured the 'B' to be pretty much a loser...that taper resulting in such a confusing too lean, then too rich, then too lean again situation as to make jetting with it a wild goose chase.
Consider the source
Using a perceived level of knowledge to boost my self worth.
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
bike profile: !clicky!