KDXRIDER.NET

I've noticed what looks like a layer of foam or froth floating on the tranny oil after riding for a while (observed through the handy-dandy sightglass no less). I noticed it after I switched to a Golden Spectra 10W-40 blend . . . or maybe it's always been that way and I've been less observant in the past.

The question: is there any significance to the foaming? If it matters, it's a mm-or-two thick layer and it does appear to dissipate as the bike cools.

I've been "evaluating" different fluids for performance. I read plenty about how one type improves shifting, another improves clutch performance, etc, thought I'd try a few different things just to see.

I've used several different types and never noticed foaming.

Rick

Are you really talking about foaming or is it more like micro bubbles in the oil?
On mine I can see them tiny bubble (I assume it's air from all the shaking and all) but no foam to speak of.

If you indeed have a layer of foam then you are either leaking something INto the tranny cavity (coolant), live in an area where condensation (hi humidity, big temp swings) is a problem, or the oil used is not up to the task.

That's if you have been using 'an' (one-each) oil regularly.

If it is actual foam it is indeed significant. Oil that is foamed is oil that will not lubricate properly. The shear strength and filming ability will be greatly reduced.

But..........


Re: 'I've been "evaluating" different fluids for performance...'

That is the most likely culprit right there....mixing 'stuff'.

Residue from a previous type mixed in with the latest - yeah, that does sound most likely.

The clutch seemed a bit odd with this Spectra blend (shifted smooth all right), so I'm gonna go back to the RB-recommended 2/3rds ATF, 1/3 10W-40 blend that seemed fine. And cheap. 'Should have stuck with it, really, just can't help fiddlin' with things. I've got two quarts left over from my "batch", I'll run a quart of it for a short spell and replace it with the other quart. 'Should be able to confirm things then.

Thank you kindly for the comments, fellas!

Got a couple of short rides with fresh tranny fluid (ATF + 10w40). 'Looks like all is fine - no more froth . . . at least so far.

For the record, what I drained out did indeed look like oil contaminated with some almost silvery substance. I suppose it's possible that I has some cross-contamination from the changes. Or the Spectra Golden blend sucks and separated/broke down after a couple of hard rides. Or I'm leaking coolant into the tranny.

Time will tell.

What to do with this other $8 quart of Spectra Golden synth blend . . .

Stool softener?

I've got one of those Rubbermaid 4-legged stools I use in the shop all the time..carry it the rig sometimes, too.

It's soft enough already!

canyncarvr wrote:I've got one of those Rubbermaid 4-legged stools I use in the shop all the time..carry it the rig sometimes, too.

It's soft enough already!

Come on, CC, get with the program! He's talkin' about BAR stools!!

Sorry.

Sometimes the meaning of 'stuff' excapes me.

canyncarvr is exactly right...or...correct anyway (he may or may not be "right", I'm certainly no judge) but growing up dating a drag racers daughter I found out all about poor quality oil that foamed under extreme RPM conditions. It's not a good quality for a "quality" oil. You don't have to pay alot for good oil and the conditons inside that clutch housing certainly qualify for the need for good oil. It's a sure thing that all that spinning around will weed out the good from the bad. Of course you could still have something else wrong like a little water. If you still get foam better find out why.

Thicker is better so why is it you don't use the recommended viscosity oil?

:::ducks as someone throws a can of ATF at me:::

Here goes another debate!

Re: '...why is it you don't use the recommended viscosity oil?'


What would that be?

You mean there is NO RECOMMENDED OIL???

I'll have to look now.

I just ASSUMED...

Then why the hell am I using 85 weight???

:heavy sigh:

Who said there was no recommended viscosity oil? Not me.

You switched gears, though.

Saying, '..why is it you don't use the recommended viscosity oil?' is not at all the same as, '.. there is NO RECOMMENDED OIL???'

Not nitpicking..just wondering now what the question was meant to be.

The KDX spec sheet wrote:
Transmission Oil SE Class SAE 10W30 or 10W40

So...he IS using the recommended viscosity oil.


Re: 'Then why the hell am I using 85 weight???'

I don't the hell know.


Now...'scuse me, gotta go. I see my favorite show is on channel JEB.

canyncarvr wrote::heavy sigh:

Who said there was no recommended viscosity oi? Not me.

You switched gears, though.

Saying, '..why is it you don't use the recommended viscosity oil?' is not at all the same as, '.. there is NO RECOMMENDED OIL???'

Not nitpicking..just wondering now what the question was meant to be.

The KDX spec sheet wrote:
Transmission Oil SE Class SAE 10W30 or 10W40

Re: 'Then why the hell am I using 85 weight???'

I don't the hell know.

You got me there! You implied no recommended weight when you said "and what would that be?"

I should not ass-u-me like I did before!

So anyway...why the hell am I using 85 weight???

I don't the hell know either!

I'll look it up in my manual when I get home. (yes I still have the owners manual).

Guess I never read it, just used what someone said to use.

Maybe that's why the manual looks like new!

Thanx for the heads up.

Re: 'You implied no recommended weight when you said "and what would that be?"'

No. I simply asked you what (you thought) it was.

I figgered the discussion was headed this way, but would not assume so..so I simply asked a question.

Folks 'round here (some) call that me being a snotty, pedantic, down-talking a-whole.

No...I just asked a question.

No need to look it up in your manual. The quote I quoted from the spec sheet is a quote from the MaKaw spec sheet of the BuyKaw website. It's a quote, too!

Nothing wrong with gear oil I guess...if you like it, are convinced it's good and all that. The SAE weighting of 'gear oil' is not the same as 'motor oil'. It's not that 85 weight is 2.87X more viscous that is 30 weight.

So I've been told anyway.

If you prefer:

API viscosity ratings for gear oils are not directly comparable with those for motor oil, and they are thinner than the figures suggest. For example, many modern gearboxes use a 75W90 gear oil, which is actually of equivalent viscosity to a 10W40 motor oil.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil

..a source which, granted, is not infallible.

I've never tried 'gear oil'. I know too many others that HAVE tried it, and it didn't work well for them. So...why bother with it?

I use 10W-40 motor oil in the summer, 10W-30 motor oil in the winter (the 'W' in those is not 'weight' btw). Why? Because it works for me. With hundreds of thousands of miles on bikes using motor oil I have had zero problems...with gears or clutches. Well..not considering normal clutch problems to be part of the deal. My OEM clutch basket is not hammered because I used motor oil. I generally use Valvoline. I change oil after every 2-3 rides.

If you are a believer in using GearSaver or some other gear oil, you are welcome to it.

Heh! I figgered it out...

I'm using Torco SAE85W which, according to the spec's on the back, is equivalent to ....you guessed it...10W-50!

Here I'm thinkin' 85W is 85 weight gear oil (hell it smells like gear oil) but it's equivalent to ordinary motor oil. It should pour like honey but it drains like motor oil (should have been my first clue!)

My bad...

But I've been out of it for a while... riding that old Honda 305 twin four stroke.

I didn't hear any "snotty, pedantic, down-talking a-whole." It's hard to hear sarcasm/irony in a forum post and I'm thick skinned anyway so no worries mate. Besides I'm a SNOB too...Society of Native Oregon Born.

Thanks for the info.

P.S> What's the ATF do according to those that use it? I was unable to acertain that from the "which oil do you use" thread.

Here's what I can tell you, Waz . . .

The ATF/10w-40 works great. Clutch operation is smooth (once the bike is ridden/warmed and at operating temperature, BTW) and shifting is just fine. Clutchless shifting OK, no unplanned slips into neutral.

In case you don't know, it's the ATF "F". The stuff still made for the older cars. $2.14 a quart!

Earlier this year I tried just ATF "F". Then I saw a post where Ron Black prescribed 2 qts ATF, 1 qt 10w-40 GTX. So I made a 3-qt batch. $6.50. Anybody that can make an engine sing like he can has got my full attention on these matters!

'Course I gotta keep trying stuff. Found this expensive Spectra blend, the more expensive the better, right? HA!!

Keep in mind that my feedback is not a result of years of testing from an old pro. Back in the "days" (early 80s) I don't remember thinking about it too much. We all just added normal old 10w-40!!

Jeb wrote:Here's what I can tell you, Waz . . .

The ATF/10w-40 works great. Clutch operation is smooth (once the bike is ridden/warmed and at operating temperature, BTW) and shifting is just fine. Clutchless shifting OK, no unplanned slips into neutral.

In case you don't know, it's the ATF "F". The stuff still made for the older cars. $2.14 a quart!

Earlier this year I tried just ATF "F". Then I saw a post where Ron Black prescribed 2 qts ATF, 1 qt 10w-40 GTX. So I made a 3-qt batch. $6.50. Anybody that can make an engine sing like he can has got my full attention on these matters!

'Course I gotta keep trying stuff. Found this expensive Spectra blend, the more expensive the better, right? HA!!

Keep in mind that my feedback is not a result of years of testing from an old pro. Back in the "days" (early 80s) I don't remember thinking about it too much. We all just added normal old 10w-40!!

Thanx for the recipe Jeb but...what is it about the ATF that makes it a better at what it's supposed to do than ordinary 10W-40?

Sorry I'm one of those guys that just has to know what makes things work like they do. This has prolly been discussed all over this forum so I'll do a search and see.

There must be some benefit cuz some of you are using it...or it could just be a perception of some benefit and it really makes no diff at all.

Any racers use this formula?

BTW the reason I like this Torco is that it pours clear and you can tell easier when it might need to be changed. 10W-40 by comparison already looks like it's contaminated!

Still I'm not opposed to trying something new if it's better for the parts or improves performance.

Thanx