KIPS cleaning & cylinder honing

jackpiner57 · Post by **jackpiner57** » 09:43 pm May 17 2005

kay dee exer, I think it's too late to call him to make sure he disassembles the kips. He told me it would be done monday, so it's probably on it's way to me already. Thanks for the good wishes!

fuzzy, I agree about the explaining thing, and who knows maybe I offended him when I asked if he would take apart the kips to clean it? His answer may have been very well hidden sarcasm? Your bore diameter stuff makes sense too, which is probably why he said to just use a standard size piston.

CC, I am going to follow your advice and not file the rings. It makes sense since if anything, the bore is ever so slightly bigger than stock. I'll check the ring gap before installation. Question: where in the bore should I check ring gap? I think I read somewhere about 16mm up from the bottom? That is the bottom of the smokehole right?

If he didn't take the kips apart, then like you said it will be a good oppotunity for me to get my hands greasy and learn something.

Post by **fuzzy** » 12:34 am May 18 2005

Yeah, just slap the piston/ring assembly in there. Again, the bore dia is soooo neglegible that your ring-end gap will most definitely be in spec.

IF he didn't take the KIPS apart then heck yea get greasy and learn how to do it next time...PLS LET US KNOW IF EG DIDN'T!

Again, he said to use a STD size piston 'cause Wiseco only makes one for the KDX and he's a Wiseco Dude as are most engine builders. There are plusses, and minuses. A Wiseco is certainely in spec clearance-wise for the KDX regardless of STD bore dia, but is forged and takes longer to warm up correctely. Pro-X makes A-B-C-D-E-F sizes, BUT these are ALL for STD bore! They are something like .00002 apart, and make up for slight wear in plating in-between top-ends. The Wiseco is more like a 'D,' and again they only make one...the others are overbore dia's. Less clearance makes more power but also increases chances of cold-siezure...This is why Wiseco says they make more power, and at the same time some people call them 'Siezco.' Wiseco's (forged pistons) are most predominate in full-blown racing engines where sustained high-RPM's are achieved....EG deals w/ this type of application the most therefore he uses Wiseco pistons...Plus they make the most bike pistons hands down. Again, WARM IT UP! and you should be A-OK....

Do a search on this site, and you'll find some more talk on 'Piston Clearance,' and A-B-C-D-E-F sizes....Again not related to Wiseco

jackpiner57 · Post by **jackpiner57** » 09:34 am May 18 2005

fuzzy, I always warm the bike up before crankin on the throttle. I do that for all of my power equipment. Maybe all I needed to do is replace the rings. I met a couple of KDX riders who were riding together at the last turkey run and they said they only replaced the rings after a few seasons on their bikes. I wonder if using the wiseco is asking for trouble. I wonder if maybe I should just use a stock piston. The original one worked so well! If I decide not to use the wiseco that EG is sending me, then it will be for sale.

Post by **Indawoods** » 09:48 am May 18 2005

JP57- I got a stock "A" size piston and rings for sale in the for sale section if your cylinder is stamped "A".... check it out and let me know.

jackpiner57 · Post by **jackpiner57** » 12:59 pm May 18 2005

Thanks Indawoods, I'll check it when I get it back and let you know.

jackpiner57 · Post by **jackpiner57** » 11:25 pm May 20 2005

I got my cylinder back from EG today and here is what I observed:

1. Cylinder honed - $25.00

2. KIPS not cleaned like I asked.

3. Moose Racing top end gasket and seal kit is the wrong one (for a 220) and Wiseco Pro Lite standard piston kit is correct for my bike. (As long as piston/cylinder clearance is not much more than 0.0020) I don't really know what the bore diameter is after honing. - $125.00

5. A copy of EG's Performance Handbook in the box apparently at no charge.

6. I did not have to pay for return shipping because I pre-paid with a check.( a blank one at that! Now that's trust! or stupidity, choose one).

Here are some concerns:

EG says in his book " If you want to buy a hone to deglaze bores or polish off small scatches, a ball hone is the best choice."

Wiseco says: If the plated cylinder is in good condition, honing may not be necessary. If deglazing is necessary, DO NOT use a ball hone. Use a rigid or brush type diamond hone.

Another concern is that I don't know the piston to cylinder clearance, but I have to trust EG on that one.

All in all I guess I got what I paid for and more, considering I got the handbook at no charge, although I would rather have had the kips cleaned and everything ready to go.

Inda, where is the alpha bore stamp on the cylinder? I found a slight mark that could be an "A" above the compression wave dissipation cavity on the left side.

Post by **Indawoods** » 01:12 am May 21 2005

That's it...

Post by **fuzzy** » 11:47 am May 21 2005

THen you're clearance might be tight....However, your cyl is probably not an 'A' after he honed it...Maybe like a 'B' as the hone isn't really supposed to remove the chrome. Regardless, Inda's 'A' piston would work fine...

The Wiseco is more like a 'D'...

jackpiner57 · Post by **jackpiner57** » 12:10 pm May 21 2005

Fuzzy, I assume the "D" is a larger dia. piston? Do you know the increase in diameter between alpha letters?

I also noticed that on the wiseco, the intake hole is a different shape than the OEM. How does that effect performance? I didn't get my old piston back from EG so I am just going by memory. I'm thinking I'd rather have an OEM piston.

Indawoods, Do you have the complete "A" kit? I am going to call EG to see if he recorded my bore dia. so I can make an informed decision.

Post by **Indawoods** » 12:20 pm May 21 2005

Genuine Kawasaki Piston and rings... no bearing. But at $50... it's a deal.

Yes.. D is a larger

65,94 mm. .A
65,95 mm. .B
65,96 mm. .C
65,97 mm. .D
65,98 mm. .E
65,99 mm. .F

jackpiner57 · Post by **jackpiner57** » 12:28 pm May 21 2005

That is a deal. Do you have the wrist pin too? I ordered a Wiseco bearing, but if I go with an OEM piston then I will want to go with an OEM pin and bearing.

I talked to EG and he said he only took maybe 3 microns off the cyl. with the hone. He said the bore dia. was probably around 66.01

Post by **Indawoods** » 01:20 pm May 21 2005

I just went out and looked. It's the Piston and rings only. Need wrist pin. bearing and gaskets to have a complete top end kit.

KDXer · Post by **KDXer** » 01:24 pm May 21 2005

And circlips ???

Post by **Indawoods** » 01:27 pm May 21 2005

AND circlips!

All Kawasaki parts available at the dealer.

Post by **fuzzy** » 01:29 pm May 21 2005

.01mm = 0.0003937"

.01mm also = 10 microns

If he took 3 microns off that would leave your cyl between an 'A,' and a 'B.' These are soooo neglegable, and nearly impossible to measure. You could run Inda's A. You could run the Wiseco. You can run an A in a F cyl w/o problems. You can run a F in an A cyl w/o problems (W/ proper warmup). This is why Wiseco only makes one std size that close to a 'D.' This potentially tight clearance along w/ the forged design forces you to have a proper warmup w/ the wiseco.

I'm suprised that EG didn't clean your powervalve, AND sent you the wrong gasket kit!!!

IdahoCharley · Post by **IdahoCharley** » 02:05 pm May 21 2005

I'm with Fuzzy on the surprise that your KIPs did not get cleaned. I would have expected a solvent flush after the honing and the KIPs to be cleaned. Gasket set being wrong can happen but the KIPS not being cleaned would have me upset.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 04:22 pm May 21 2005

Oh yeah, solvent flush! You need to do a wash and rinse on that cylinder. Thanks for bringing that up, IC.

jackpiner57 · Post by **jackpiner57** » 10:55 pm May 21 2005

Inda, I saw the part #'s for your piston and rings in the for sale forum and they aren't the same as my bike. They are a good deal though, and somebody should snatch them up. Thanks for the alpha piston sizes, that's some good info.

fuzzy, Thanks for the mm/micron info. I think I'll just use the Wiseco now.

IC, Yeah I agree.

Jason. Thanks I'll be sure to do that before oiling the cyl.

EG told me to get the right head gasket and he would send me a check for it. I was given a price of $25.10 by a dealer. That's almost the cost for the Moose top end set he sent me! I checked the part #'s and all of the other gaskets are the same on both bikes.

Post by **Indawoods** » 11:08 pm May 21 2005

Wouldn't want you to put the wrong parts in.
It's funny though that Wiseco and Pro-X fit all years.... I'm sure this is the case also....

I put a Pro-X piston in mine and it looks exactly like the one that came out of it.

jackpiner57 · Post by **jackpiner57** » 10:03 pm May 24 2005

Thanks Inda, I have decided to just put in the Wiseco and take my chances. I always warm up my equipment before beating on it.

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KIPS cleaning & cylinder honing