KDXRIDER.NET

Yah. It's for girliemen!!


signed,
Annabob

p.s.
I thought all you REAL men out there preferred the CEK...and the DEK was just 'fer wimps like me.

Not that I cared one way t'other...I know what works.........

TWMOODY wrote:I agree with the blow by past the second ring but the weird thing is it had
145lbs compression at tear down.
Engine had about 1100 miles on it at tear down also so something caused the ring failure.
The boot to air box connection is from what I could see a very tight connection (rubber still very flexible) so I just added a tad of rtv to make sure.
Cylinder looked excellent above intake port (in line with piston damage)
but slightly marked below which a abrasive pad cleaned right up.
I did use a hone to put cross hatch on cylinder but slow speed and
only seconds cause I know your not supposed to hone.

Just thought of this...TW..do you use the spacer UNDER the ring?

Ok what spacer you speaking bout???

You going to use a Pro-X for the redeaux?

You mean for the piston CC ?
I had a weisco on the shelf waiting for me to put in.
I like to keep any part that will fail on hand so I'm not down
for more than the time it takes to fix it.

Another thought on oil failure on the intake side......
I have ZERO spooge, none, zippo,nuttin.
I haven't sense I started using Amsoil interceptor.
I mix 40:1 and am using 16oz of toluene per 5 gallons of gas
and pump 93 octane
The 16 oz is PART of the total 5 gallons.
Guess I should mix 32:1??
I put the original foam filter back in and notice absolutely
no difference in performance.

Didn't think to measure ring end gap on tear down but the new rings
are .011

When you use Toluene in your gas I believe you need to add Kerosene to keep the Toluene from washing down the cylinder walls.

TWMOODY wrote: . . . One thing I would have to say is that the DEK needle on
#4 seems much better than the CEK on #3 or #4.
Wider power band with the same or better hit . . .

How is the hit "better"? Not as much? More? In a more preferred place (lower/higher) in RPM range? And as far as the power band being "wider", what did you experience with the CEK?

I had a mild hit using the CEL (over the DEL) with the stock carb, but since my bike's been "born again" with Ron's mods - and I've twiddled with the jetting a little since it's gotten much warmer - the powerband in my bike is quite linear and I have the CEK. From a near standstill and in 1st or 2nd the bike lurches & jumps forward with say 1/4 throttle. "Private KDX - ten hut!". "YES SIR, MR JEB SIR!!" 1/2 throttle snap and the front wheel's gettin' light. I can do the same in 3rd if I've got a little momentum, from a standstill it rolls on quite smoothly and pulls pretty good. The jetting was getting "fatter" on the idle-circuit side as it's gotten warmer and now I've a 38PJ which tuned things up quite nicely.

I suppose I've got my jetting dialed in pretty good but I'm interested in how the DEK would change things. I do get/feel some wheelspin in the looser stuff when I'm gunning it right before KIPS opening RPMs (seemingly). I'm wondering if I changed my needle if I could get more of the wheelspin/hit thing AT 6,000 RPMs and get a little more pronounced YEE -HAW . . .

I sorta like a little bit of hit . . . (yes I know, hit = incorrect jetting, but still . . .)

A spatter of things:

16oz. as part of a five gallon mix is 2.5%. I run twice that..and have had no symptom of or negative result from toluene. I have run kero as part of the mix. Preferred how it ran without it. I didn't spend a lot of time tweaking the kero mix, so that may be an unsettled conclusion.

32:1 is worth a try. Why? Because you may like it. I've tried it, jetting adjusted. I did NOT like it. Engine response was not as good as 40:1. A btw...but for the same reason (why not?) I've tried 32:1 vs: 40:1 in my Banshee, too. I got a MUCH better running machine!

The point is...you will know when you try it. What someone else says, thinks or comes up with is NOT the point.

Yes. I meant using a Pro-X piston.

TW:..what is the piston-cylinder clearance of the Wiseco? I want to know is isn't .003". Doubt it was that close. The ring gap of the OLD rings?

What are the chances this is a Seize-co issue? Cold seizure due to piston growth?

Zero spooge is a nice effect, but means nothing in regard to proper (or not) lubrication.

Best way to know if you like a DEK is to try one! Its performance in a 200 isn't the same as a 220. In a 200, the power comes on later in the throttle. Hence (considering a greater speed to often coincide with more throttle) there is less wheelspin using a DEK vs: the CEK.

Buy one for $5 and give it a run!

(yes I know, hit = incorrect jetting)

Not really....That's all in the 'personal preference' part of the jetting equation. Getting the 'hit' out of a 2-stroke can be near impossible at times. In this case the KIPS and commonly used pipes for the KDX work quite well together, and all the research has been done.

OK heres the deal............
As far as piston to cylinder clearance don't know didn't measure it didn't
care due to appearance. Ring end gap was .011
Ran good before I tore it down, ran good when done.

Now as far as the Girlie Needle DEK VS CEK, here is what I found.

38/40/42/45 and 150/152/155 jet tried with many combinations

For my bike the 40/152 combo is noticeably the best going any richer
I have to much low end sputter rich condition and on the pilot
any richer power loss'
any leaner has bog and hesitation

CEK #3 hard hit just as the kips opens and poof it's gone (9000rpm or so)
wheel lift through 4th gear
CEK #4 way to rich off idle sputter sounds crappy first snap of throttle
you get that plug loading sputter

DEK #3 hit at similar rpm same power pick up ect wider power band
DEK#4 Hard hit same or better than CEK and have more power through
10000rpm or so
Wheel lift through 5th gears
IMO by the seat o pants test and I put MANY miles on testing different
combinations, chop tests, the DEK seems better to me

The CEK even on #4 dumps useless fuel from 1/16 throttle to just less that 3/8 after that it is less fuel than the DEK when you most need it.

I read about changing out needles CEK/DEK with the same clip position
and the same jetting/ my suggestion TRY the DEK one clip position lower
than you run the CEK and go one size leaner on the main. You may
like it.
Will also post a chart for RELATIVE fuel mixture changes.


http://kdxrider.net/forums/modules/albu ... .thumb.jpg

Great!! If I had to write-up the CEK/DEK I could only hope to make it 1/2 as clear and 'on the money' as your post. Perfect!

Re: hit=incorrect jetting

I think the subject is Jonathan vs: Rome apples.

Considering that a whole lot of 2-smokes are NOT jetted well at all, the more common 'hit' of such a bike is incorrect jetting. It's the recovery of the engine from a poor air/fuel situation to one that works. Well...at least works better.

That's not to say a correctly jetted 2-smoke won't have a 'hit'. My 700SC (NOT a 2-smoke, of course) has a healthy hit about 9500RPM. It would be an odd engine that did NOT run better in one spot than some other. Considering all the variables..air flow, fuel flow, atomization, fuel suspension, delivery, combustion chamber flush, fill, squish, burn, extraction, return charge, valve/port timing......

It's going to run SOMEwhere better than some other where.

Anyway, thanks for the write-up! Excellent!!

**edit**

Happened to re-read this..from some guy:

cc wrote:
CEK-4: Hits hard and fast (low in the throttle range..considerably lower than the DEK). Great fun if you have traction..when it's dry it's a whole lot of wheel spin. Off-idle response is great...throttle control is important 'cuz it will loop if you have traction. Weak on top..just what you would expect for an early slope-start/slower taper needle (again, compared to the DEK).

I'd forgotten I'd written the 'weak on top' part about the CEK.

Now I understand why I liked your write-up so much, TW. It agrees with me!!

Just kidding...well, not really......

TW, where abouts do you ride usually? I am in Warren actually, so we aren't too far apart. A couple weekends ago a coworker and I ran up to the St. Helen trail for the day. It was a bit of a drive, and that was the sandiest trail that I have ever ridden. It really kicked my ass.

For anyone else, would this jetting be a good place to start? I know absolutely nothing about how that stuff works. I read the threads in the jetting section and they just left me all . Since we are in the same conditions, should I jet to this and go from there? Obviously all bikes will be different, so some tuning will be required.

'this' meaning what?

TW's jetting?

His choice of needle won't work in your OEM carb.

Well...you HAVE an OEM carb?

Generally speaking, include make/model/year/mod level when asking questions about your bike.

So...yours is.....what?

Actually, starting another thread with your question would give you a better chance of reasonable, effective response.


OK. I give. A search (obviously insufficient terms entered) didn't tell me..I don't see TW in the 'profile' section.

I found this:

TWMoody wrote:I have a new KDX 200 2005 leftover and am planning to get the RB head and carb mod...

..from the end of last year.

Now...I can look right at something and not see it, but for the sake of clarity TW, you DO have a modified carb...right?

**edit**

Got it:

TWMoody wrote:On my 05 200 with a RB mod carb...

RB yup yup, I couldn't let everyone talk bout it here and not have it!
Only thing I don't really have is USD'S and a stabilizer.
Should have bought a 250 smoker I guess but I still like my ride.

Stormy, I go all over the place like down my road,back field,Mounds, Mio,
North Branch,Higgins Lake, Bull Gap,Ambrose and did a run to
Macoy hatfield in West Virginia in april.
Wanted to go again next week but everyone has to work.
I'm up by M53 & 31 mile Rd

Start a new thread about your carb and give all the details like CC
said so we have some kind of clue what your riding.
PM me incase I miss your thread.