C2 KDX engine rattle at higher revs

junkman · Post by **junkman** » 10:28 pm May 22 2013

im going thru the same thing just put the extra time into it and split the cases and put crank seals in it then you never have to worry about it again you will have a brand new bike after your done.!

xcracer · Post by **xcracer** » 12:16 pm May 27 2013

I'll update when I finally get some time on the laptop. (this is sent from my phone on lunch break).

But, quick question - how do I pull the flywheel?
I made a quick jig to pull using the m6 threads on the face, pushing against the crankshaft, but it won't go. I'm afraid to put too much heat on it - don't want to ruin the electronics or crank seal (even if I replace it, I want to see it first).

Let me know - thanks!

Goofaroo · Post by **Goofaroo** » 12:45 pm May 27 2013

I was able to rig up one of my harmonic balancer pullers and make it work. If you don't have a puller that will work, go to Autozone and borrow one that will. ONLY remove it with a bolt mounted puller. Don't try to pull it off with a jawed puller or you will almost certainly unseat the magnets. As far as heat, I would be very careful and don't do much more that just warm it up. Hit it with some penetrating oil, find the right puller, and it will come off.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 04:27 pm May 27 2013

use something that looks like a steering wheel puller.

xcracer · Post by **xcracer** » 09:30 pm May 28 2013

So, I'm finally writing from my laptop, and can actually type / spend some time on this update.
And I gots me an ImageShack account, so I can post pictures too! Yay!
Sorry about that....

So, I didn't find or borrow a steering wheel puller, but I did make a flywheel puller at work today.
My first version (my "quick jig" from a previous post) is on the left. As you can tell, it didn't fare well. My new, improved one is on the right. It worked perfectly.

Once I pulled my flywheel, I found my rattle!!

Well, maybe not. They might have cracked free when the flywheel broke free. It took some force, and made quite the snapping noise...

So, I split my case after that (with a proper case splitter) and ran into another potential problem.... I think the bearings are supposed to stay in the case and come off the crank instead... At least that's what the Kawi manual makes me think. But maybe this isn't the worst, if I don't have to re-gap the crank inside the case....

Here's a picture of the jug when I first inspected it, and the piston that came out of it.

The head looked clean when I first pulled it -

Jug was honed by a local shop - he knew it was plated, and he said he has special stones for honing it. Someone mentioned in a previous post that you can't hone a plated bore - the plating is too hard - but Kawi says that you can use a 400-600 grit to clean up and grooves during break-in, so I'm assuming there are a couple different types of plating...?
Here's the honed jug -

Aside from that, here's a picture of the beast the first time I saw it sitting in my brother-in-laws garage....

And a picture of it cleaned up, awaiting it's new/used rear wheel....

So, I've got some work ahead of me still.

After taking it apart, I can say that the big end crank bearing does NOT have any up and down play. It was rotation of the crank that was fooling me when it was still all together. It does have a bunch of side to side, but I'll take it to work, get it on the granite block and get a dial indicator on it in the next while.

The clutch cover has some good size dings in it, and some are starting to show cracking on the inside of the case. Going to cut a small groove and JB Weld them, toss them in the oven at work, and let it set. I'll probably do the magnets in the flywheel at the same time.

I'm also going to order a complete oil seal kit, and replace them all while I have them apart.

Couple of questions:

Is JB Weld suitable for magnets? Or should I look at an epoxy?

How do I clean all the case parts, etc? I have some brake clean, but don't want to leave any residue in the case to mix with the oil... I've heard of people putting bicycle parts in the dishwasher - I'm tempted to try this when my wife isn't looking... Does this sound like a stupid idea? I'd hate to see the bearings all rust because the parts sat to dry in there....?

Seal installation - what works best? Thus far, I haven't purchased a single Kawasaki tool; all generic tools. On mountain bike forks, and on my KDX forks, I just used a large, flat bladed screwdriver with electrical tape on the tip to push seals into place. Looking briefly at the seals in the case, I could probably get away with using different size sockets and a small dead blow? Or we have an arbor press at work I could use....

Also - I have one washer that doesn't have a home.... Where does it go? (Just joking - I'll have to scour the parts diagrams to figure that one out....) But seriously - does anyone have a copy of all the parts diagrams? I'd love to print them all and have them for reference?

Think that's all for this massive post.
Thanks for all the info so far, and hopefully I can be of some help down to others down the road!

Cheers

Post by **KDXGarage** » 10:07 pm May 28 2013

xcracer wrote:... I've heard of people putting bicycle parts in the dishwasher - I'm tempted to try this when my wife isn't looking... Does this sound like a stupid idea?

SHE WILL BEAT YOUR ASS

Post by **KDXGarage** » 10:12 pm May 28 2013

piston is trash
cylinder may be OK for war-time use, otherwise Millenium Technologies or Langcourt
epoxy and "best of luck" on rotor, or www.frpoffroad.com for replacement solution
brake cleaner will evaporate...I have bought several different brands, I love CRC! I have used MANY cans on suspension cleaning.
sockets will do on the seals.

xcracer · Post by **xcracer** » 10:40 pm May 28 2013

Thanks for the quick, concise info.

I have a new Weisco piston waiting to go in, along with new small end bearing.

I'm gonna run it with the cylinder the way it is. I don't see myself riding that often (couple times a month) because theres nowhere nearby to ride. Every ride is at least a half-day trip.

I'll have to grab some brake cleaner and start cleaning it all up an piecing it back together!

Cheers

rbates9 · Post by **rbates9** » 08:44 pm May 30 2013

The crank bearings will stay where they feel most comfortable. Sometimes they stay in the case, sometimes on the crank. Where they stay means little to nothing. It is a bit easier to deal with when they stay in the case tho.

xcracer · Post by **xcracer** » 09:40 pm May 30 2013

Picked up my oil seal kit today. Also JB Welded the magnets back on the flywheel, along with some cracks in the clutch cover. (They weren't leaking oil, but better do it right while it's a apart.)

Question - the seal kit has the obvious parts in it - but also has two small rubber seals (no metal). The bigger of the two is for the KIPS actuator arm, but I have NO clue where the smallest one goes.

Also, the Kawi manual suggests a "high temperature grease". Any suggestions? We have a high performance grease at work which can handle rapid temperature changes, but am not sure if it's ideal. Any types of grease to aim for or stay away from?

Clutch question - I've heard of people filing down the faces of the clutch basket where the friction plates make indents. Mine are rippled, but I wouldn't say grooved. Worth cleaning them up? Or no point?

Only thing I'm missing now is a few o-rings - including the countershaft o-ring. Probably head to the local Princess Auto (Canadian version of Harbour Freight) and pick up a box of assorted o-rings Saturday morning.

Cheers!

Post by **KDXGarage** » 10:01 pm May 30 2013

Check the collar by the sprocket for a worn groove. It is usually a combination of errors that cause it to leak.

xcracer · Post by **xcracer** » 06:58 pm May 31 2013

Jason wrote:Check the collar by the sprocket for a worn groove. It is usually a combination of errors that cause it to leak.

This is referring to the leak from the countershaft?
When I pulled the collar off, there was only 1/2 an o-ring sitting in there.... not sure where the other half went, but I was just planning replacing it. I'll do a quick inspection though too.

Cheers

Post by **KDXGarage** » 07:22 pm May 31 2013

xcracer wrote:
Jason wrote:Check the collar by the sprocket for a worn groove. It is usually a combination of errors that cause it to leak.
This is referring to the leak from the countershaft?
When I pulled the collar off, there was only 1/2 an o-ring sitting in there.... not sure where the other half went, but I was just planning replacing it. I'll do a quick inspection though too.

Cheers

Yes, the countershaft.
Wow! Half an o-ring. Just check for a groove worn into the collar. Obviously the o-ring was the main cause. Keep up the good work.

xcracer · Post by **xcracer** » 07:42 pm May 31 2013

Yup.
Here's what I pulled off the bike. Collar looks good to my inexperienced eye....

[img=http://imageshack.us/a/img4/6302/20130531203327.jpg]

And even though the wife won't let me clean dirt bike engine parts in the dishwasher, I can still use her dishes for photo staging.... (Don't mind the chocolate streaks on the plate - was enjoying some fresh chocolate chip cookies when I decided it was time for another photo....)

Post by **KDXGarage** » 09:24 pm May 31 2013

Like that o-ring, I am torn...cookies or work on a bike.

Look on the outside of the collar, where the seal rides against it.

rbates9 · Post by **rbates9** » 09:25 pm May 31 2013

I don't know about the older ones but the H models use two o rings in there.

xcracer · Post by **xcracer** » 09:30 pm May 31 2013

There was another o-ring on the countershaft once I tore the motor down. It didn't seem to be accessible from the outside.... Although I didn't go searching for o-rings - only for the source of my leak.

And the outside of the collar doesn't seem to be grooved.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 10:00 pm May 31 2013

this model just has one (or 1.5)

1995+ models are different, with 2.

I can't remember on the 1989-1994 models.

Goofaroo · Post by **Goofaroo** » 10:07 pm May 31 2013

Part number 92055 is the o-ring you need- http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorc ... 1#sch47556

There is also a seal that you probably already have.

xcracer · Post by **xcracer** » 06:56 pm Jun 01 2013

Goofaroo wrote:Part number 92055 is the o-ring you need- http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorc ... 1#sch47556

There is also a seal that you probably already have.

I ended up printing all the parts diagrams off BikeBandit. (Koodoo's to them for allowing users to so easily print diagrams).
There was no o-ring shown on the countershaft on the parts diagram, so I made an executive decision and took the one I found there (the complete one, obviously) and re-purposed it for use with the countershaft sleeve. If it leaks, I keep looking for an o-ring that size. (Maybe the previous owner noticed the leak and just threw a second o-ring at it...??)

Also ended up munching my "indexing lever" for the shifter. The manual gave me a torque value, and I stopped early, because it seemed far too tight (and I didn't want to strip out the case). I ended up peening over the end of the collar / sleeve that the lever rides on. It was locked on there pretty good, but after some elbow grease sanding off the lip it created, I was able to salvage it. Will probably replace it when I get the chance.
I also realized that I was missing a thrust washer for the idler gear for the kickstarter. Don't believe there was anything there when I took it apart.
So, I'll order the proper parts at some point soon, and when I get them in, I can pull clutch cover with the motor on the bike.

Right now, I'm waiting for the grey gasket stuff to cure so I can fill it with oil to check for leaks, and I'll probably tackle the top end tomorrow.
So far, so good..... (knock on wood!)

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