KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Discussion for swapping a KDX motor in a MX frame...
User avatar
B737driver
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 01:11 pm Dec 02 2011
Country:
Location: Heath, Texas

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by B737driver » 07:13 pm Jan 05 2019

15467334670462192408344630605532.jpg
15467334670462192408344630605532.jpg (1.85 MiB) Viewed 476 times
15467334670462192408344630605532.jpg
15467334670462192408344630605532.jpg (1.85 MiB) Viewed 476 times
Piston
Attachments
15467335278398573676691151217646.jpg
15467335278398573676691151217646.jpg (1.85 MiB) Viewed 476 times
Live to Fly
Fly to Live

User avatar
B737driver
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 01:11 pm Dec 02 2011
Country:
Location: Heath, Texas

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by B737driver » 07:17 pm Jan 05 2019

15467337732081247960868993151200.jpg
15467337732081247960868993151200.jpg (1.89 MiB) Viewed 476 times
Piston
Live to Fly
Fly to Live

User avatar
B737driver
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 01:11 pm Dec 02 2011
Country:
Location: Heath, Texas

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by B737driver » 07:19 pm Jan 05 2019

15467338624746076796339357059200.jpg
15467338624746076796339357059200.jpg (1.61 MiB) Viewed 476 times
Maybe a little blow by where the upper ring comes together.
Live to Fly
Fly to Live

User avatar
B737driver
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 01:11 pm Dec 02 2011
Country:
Location: Heath, Texas

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by B737driver » 07:29 pm Jan 05 2019

Anyway, that's what I've got. Going to rebuild the bottom end and work on the air boot to carb junction a bit more.
Live to Fly
Fly to Live

User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 9564
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by KDXGarage » 11:25 pm Jan 05 2019

Yeah, maybe the left seal is leaking:

send off crankshaft for connecting rod kit
new mains and seals
new piston
new rings
new gaskets
new coolant and engine oil

GOOD TO GO

The little lines look like dirt scratches on the piston and cylinder.

If there is aluminum streaking on the cylinder walls, read up on muriatic acid.
kdxrider.net forum member doakley participating in National Enduro series:
(current class standing, 5th!)
viewtopic.php?f=136&t=23217&sid=e6a86d8 ... 9&start=40

Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:

User avatar
SS109
Member
Posts: 3682
Joined: 05:11 am Aug 23 2009
Country: US
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Contact:

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by SS109 » 10:23 pm Jan 10 2019

I'm really curious about the crank damage. Did you explode a piston at some time?
AZ State Parks OHV Ambassador - Trail Riders of Southern AZ
'11 GasGas EC250 Race
Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue

User avatar
B737driver
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 01:11 pm Dec 02 2011
Country:
Location: Heath, Texas

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by B737driver » 11:01 am Jan 11 2019

I was surprised at the look of it as well. No history of broken pistons. I've done multiple top ends through the years and never noticed this, but I really wasn't looking. The bottom end was always good.....till it wasn't that is.

I looked at some images of other KDX cranks and surprisingly saw similar marks (metal apparently missing) in the exact same area. Based on this, I'm trying to convince myself that it may be normal.

Update: Dropped the bottom end off with my mechanic. He thinks that the races on one of the main bearings is coming apart and fortunately I caught it before the bearing completely came apart. I hope to get pics when he splits the cases.
Live to Fly
Fly to Live

User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 9564
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by KDXGarage » 11:40 am Jan 11 2019

If you are seeing the same thing, then it may very well be.

OFF TO THE RACES!! :-)
kdxrider.net forum member doakley participating in National Enduro series:
(current class standing, 5th!)
viewtopic.php?f=136&t=23217&sid=e6a86d8 ... 9&start=40

Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:

User avatar
Julien D
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 5788
Joined: 07:53 pm Nov 07 2008
Country:
Contact:

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by Julien D » 03:43 pm Jan 11 2019

Nice, I hope it all gets worked out. I would like to see those if you do get pics.
Image

Dan 250sr
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 80
Joined: 03:01 am Nov 06 2018
Country: Japanese version
Location: UK Hertford

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by Dan 250sr » 12:43 pm Feb 07 2019

That's a siezed or nearly seized piston, autolube or premix? I put a 38carb on my 250 and got it wrong. Before mine locked up it was making a ticking sound.
The piston skirt is getting to hot and pinching. Is piston the correct size for barrel?

Vossman
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 211
Joined: 06:23 pm Jul 24 2017
Country: USA

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by Vossman » 06:51 pm Feb 07 2019

Any updates b737driver?

User avatar
B737driver
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 01:11 pm Dec 02 2011
Country:
Location: Heath, Texas

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by B737driver » 07:44 pm Feb 07 2019

Well the bottom end is currently being rebuilt. The main bearing on the water pump side was in the process of "letting loose". Really hoping to get some pics when he pulls it apart. He just rebuilt the crank and installed a new rod. He thinks that the metal shavings from the race coming apart were getting into the top end during combustion causing the piston scoring. He hasn't pulled the seal on that side yet to totally expose the bearing.

Obviously, I'm doing a new top end as well. I've always used Motul at 40:1 (premix) and I guess 15 years is pretty good for the bottom end to hold together. It's been ridden hard and never failed me before. I'm no expert rider but I do use all the power bottom to top where appropriate. It's been bulletproof and I hope to get another 15 years out of it after the rebuild.
Live to Fly
Fly to Live

User avatar
B737driver
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 01:11 pm Dec 02 2011
Country:
Location: Heath, Texas

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by B737driver » 08:00 pm Feb 07 2019

Kinda getting tired of this look...can't wait to ride it again,
IMG_20190202_183446.jpg
IMG_20190202_183446.jpg (302.22 KiB) Viewed 399 times
Live to Fly
Fly to Live

User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 9564
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by KDXGarage » 08:11 pm Feb 07 2019

Soon!
kdxrider.net forum member doakley participating in National Enduro series:
(current class standing, 5th!)
viewtopic.php?f=136&t=23217&sid=e6a86d8 ... 9&start=40

Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:

Vossman
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 211
Joined: 06:23 pm Jul 24 2017
Country: USA

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by Vossman » 08:24 pm Feb 07 2019

Very cool. Thanks.

Dan 250sr
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 80
Joined: 03:01 am Nov 06 2018
Country: Japanese version
Location: UK Hertford

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by Dan 250sr » 12:53 pm Feb 08 2019

I use motul 32.1 I'm not that brave... maybe main jet is restricted/ blocked that will make it run lean at top end. Worth checking before you start her up.
I got stitched up with a Chinese copy 38 keinlin, surpossed to be sudco tuned. It wrecked my original sr barrel and piston, and also started to siez kx barrel I put on , all my pistons looked just like yours. Also if crank seal is gone that will draw air in through seal instead of carb. Could possibly make it run lean. Still think it's nipping up... you would have marks on top of piston if anything was flying around in the cylinder.. just my opinion please correct me if I'm wrong

User avatar
B737driver
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 432
Joined: 01:11 pm Dec 02 2011
Country:
Location: Heath, Texas

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by B737driver » 08:27 am Feb 22 2019

Well here is what I've got. The inner race on the main bearing (water pump side) was being chewed up. The metal that it was producing is what was getting into the combustion chamber. That metal is what you see on the piston. Fortunately, I caught it early enough to not mess up the cylinder or head. Lesson here is, if something doesn't sound right...shut it down before further damage occurs. Crazy thing is, the bike was still running normal.
image.jpg
image.jpg (284.8 KiB) Viewed 333 times
It was also pointed out that the cases were not flush in some areas allowing pressure to move around in the bottom end where it shouldn't. Here is the image from the mechanic showing those areas. I guess it was a casting flaw from Kawi since this is the first time the cases have been split. He's going to clean that up and should have it back in a week or so. So... new top end, crank rebuilt, new rod, new bearings throughout...should be good to go for years.
image.jpg
image.jpg (284.8 KiB) Viewed 333 times
Attachments
image (1).jpg
image (1).jpg (351.4 KiB) Viewed 333 times
Live to Fly
Fly to Live

User avatar
KDXGarage
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 9564
Joined: 06:45 am Nov 01 2004
Country: United States of America
Location: AL, USA
Contact:

Re: KIPS rattle with a new MUCH louder rattle...help me out guys (with video and pics)

Post by KDXGarage » 09:15 am Feb 22 2019

And now we know...
the REST of the story.

Good day.

...Thank you for the follow up. It is always good to get the autopsy report.
kdxrider.net forum member doakley participating in National Enduro series:
(current class standing, 5th!)
viewtopic.php?f=136&t=23217&sid=e6a86d8 ... 9&start=40

Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:

Post Reply