Kips sub shaft o-ring

[billie_morini]

Hi Chopperpilot,
Your offer is accepted. Please disassemble the Millennium-servced cylinder to examine what seal is on the right hand rod in the power valve system. Let's see if an O-ring was installed, whether the original seal was re-innstalled (may be difficult to tell), or if a new X-ring is installed.

If possible, then please also measure the diameter of the groove that the seal sits within. It's anticipated that the measured diameter will be consistent with the original manufacture.

Don't be shy to share photos of what you see.

Thank you in advance.

[John_S]

Thank you all for the effort. When I did my 220 top end I remember the shaft (with new oem oring greased) having more friction than I thought it should. Seemed like a very tight fit but the KIPS functioned as normal when running.

[Chopperpilot]

Hi Chopperpilot,
Your offer is accepted. Please disassemble the Millennium-servced cylinder to examine what seal is on the right hand rod in the power valve system. Let's see if an O-ring was installed, whether the original seal was re-innstalled (may be difficult to tell), or if a new X-ring is installed.

If possible, then please also measure the diameter of the groove that the seal sits within. It's anticipated that the measured diameter will be consistent with the original manufacture.

Don't be shy to share photos of what you see.

Thank you in advance.

Done! Ok this is the first time I've seen these things so I have no idea what I'm looking at (as far as being 'correct' or not). It appears to have a black xring seal on it and the groove doesn't look to have been machined, it measured a 5.47mm with my calipers. Here are the pictures. Didn't feel like very much drag to me, the size of the shaft vs hole + whatever light grease they put on seemed to have more drag than the seal.

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[Chopperpilot]

wow, that first and second picture are terrible. Hopefully it shows what you're looking for with my description of the measurements.

[Kawibunga]

Thanks for that Chopperpilot! It looks to me like they have supply of the original seals. The pictures and the ID and OD measurement to me all indicate that they're either getting originals made, or they found a supply of these seals. Could you check one more thing if you don't mind? Is the ID of the seal flat? Or is it profiled with the bumps like the OD. The original Kawasaki seals have a flat ID, unlike Xrings......

[billie_morini]

Five stars for Chopperpilot for willingness to disassemble his cylinder and share photos, measurements, & notes! Will be interesting to learn whether the seal ID surface is smooth or ribbed.

Extra credit for Kawibunga for reviewing Chopperpilot's photos & notes so quickly!

Question for Kawibunga: Could this be the original seal and Millennium did not replace it?

[Chopperpilot]

Ok sure. I put it back together and timed the KIPS, after doing it once I see it's no big deal. Anything else though this time when I take it apart?

[Chopperpilot]

Thanks for that Chopperpilot! It looks to me like they have supply of the original seals. The pictures and the ID and OD measurement to me all indicate that they're either getting originals made, or they found a supply of these seals. Could you check one more thing if you don't mind? Is the ID of the seal flat? Or is it profiled with the bumps like the OD. The original Kawasaki seals have a flat ID, unlike Xrings......

Seal looks to have a flat ID. ID (and I'm sure everyone realizes the troubles miking a rubber seal with calipers, but I was careful) is about 5.4mm +/- a 'little bit'. OD appears to be about 8mm (feel a lot better about this measurement) +/- .05?

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[Chopperpilot]

I just got a customer satisfaction query from them, perhaps a bit of tit for tat is in order? I can tell them there's a community interested in purchasing these seals and perhaps they could make them available. Should work unless they bought up all the NOS and are just hoarding them for their kits?

[Kawibunga]

That 100% looks to me like the original Kawasaki seal. Thanks for doing that!

[Chopperpilot]

OK guys, just got off the phone with MT ...... look up SD088144 for the seal. I was able in 45 seconds to find one on Amazon and was set to order 2 on Revzilla (I added them to the cart, they said 'in stock').......

[Kawibunga]

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

If we found a supply, that would be awesome! Thanks for the leg work and getting this info on your end, much appreciated!

[jamiethegiraffe]

Chopperpilot, thanks for the disassembly recon. I got really excited to see that part number, but the more i look for it online, the more that looks like the KIPS mainshaft oil seals that are pressed into either side of the cylinder- not the subvalve packing X ring. See attached pics from ebay:

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I hope i'm wrong about this, but it seems like Millenium is continuing to sidestep our collective query.
EDIT: Confirmed via parts fiche, oil seal SD088144 Kawasaki part number 92049-1238 is for the KIPS main shaft. There is one pressed into the cylinder on either end of the shaft. It is NOT the sub valve rod packing seal we're looking for.

On the O ring side of things, i ordered a bag of 50 silicone O rings from ebay based on the measurements Billie provided regarding the Fredette O ring. The 50ct bag was about $12 shipped and listed as 8mm OD 5mm ID 1.5mm Width- Red Silicone O ring. They arrived today and some careful measuring showed the the same numbers as the Fredette O ring.
I also contacted Jeff Fredette and ordered a couple of the ones he has been using/supplying. Planning to do a size comparison between the two and hopefully arriving at an easily purchased, inexpensive solution to this packing seal problem.

[brademan76]

Pics on eBay of SD088144 92049-1238 don't look like what's in your photo.

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[brademan76]

^^ Jinx

Are we sure millenium replaced the o-ring? Or, could that rubber be what was already on the bike?

[Chopperpilot]

hmm... Well does the shaft oil seals come in the Cometic top end kit? (I'm assuming yes but I don't know). On my invoice the seal is listed as a separate (1) OEM Kawasaki seal-oil SD088144 92049-1238 ? The invoice also has a Cometic Top end gasket kit on it. The Cometic package has part #s on it that are in the package. ......and on Revzilla, that part also fits:
Kawasaki
KDX200 1995-2006
KDX220 1997
KDX220R 1998-2005
KX100 1998-2021
KX112 2022, 2023, 2025
KX125 1998-2005
KX250 2005, 2006, 2007
KX80 1998, 1999, 2000
So if people are correct and the H series KDX is the only one that uses this....... then that part # probably isn't good. They probably are sitting on a stack of hoarded seals! I'll keep pestering them. The guy did say something sly about being a 'name in the industry' and being able to get these. I asked him about offering them for sale, he wasn't interested.

[Chuck78]

I'd say it is highly possible that we are looking at the original seal that was still in good usable condition, perhaps Millennium only replaces them when they see they are worn? And the one we are looking at in shoppers pictures is the original?

I thought for sure somewhere someone had talked to Millennium in these comments here and they said that it is a packing seal replacement that Millennium Technologies get direct from McMaster Carr?
Either that or they just aren't replacing them at all?

[brademan76]

I'd say it is highly possible that we are looking at the original seal that was still in good usable condition, perhaps Millennium only replaces them when they see they are worn? And the one we are looking at in shoppers pictures is the original?

I thought for sure somewhere someone had talked to Millennium in these comments here and they said that it is a packing seal replacement that Millennium Technologies get direct from McMaster Carr?
Either that or they just aren't replacing them at all?

Billie sent an email to Jason at MT specifically asking about the McMaster seal, but never got a response.

[Chopperpilot]

I will say other than dirty, my 2001 doesn't look like it was run very much.

[billie_morini]

I've concluded Millenium (MT) is not replacing the right power valve rod seal and their personnel are lazy and/or smart assed.

Ok, do loop summary:
My 1st round of communication with MT' involved telephone and email. Following phone call #1, MT sent an email with a Revzilla or Partzilla link for the wrong part. Following phone call #2, MT sent an email with a Revzilla or Partzilla , which we all know cannot fill the order. In phone call #1 and my email #1 providing detailed information about the seal, MT was told no retail vendor (Revzilla, Partzilla, Rocky Mtn, Motosport, etc ) cannot provide the part and this is why our forum is asking where MT gets the seal in question.

As Chuck recalled, MT did not answer my email #3. This email specifically asked if MT installs McMaster-Carr X-ring 008 part number (the one we think is the right one).

Knowing the wise guy treatment Chopper got from MT and Jaimiegiraff quickly realizing MT told Chopper the wrong part, helps me conclude 1) MT is not changing the right power valve rod seal and 2) MT is intentionally being jackasses.