KDX220 Heavy Clutch and plastic revival

[Swanpuppy]

Hello all, I have been riding and slowly fixing my 2002 KDX220 over this year, it's been a blast. The clutch on this is so heavy I feel like I am getting carpal tunnel. I lubed up the cable last night and it does make the pull smoother, however its still heavy, not the light buttery smooth feel ive read people experiencing. Cable routing looks stock, no kinks or bends.

1. Is this normal for it to be heavier? I dont see how anyone would 'feather' a clutch this heavy. Im debating on adding one of those moose racing ez clutch systems.
2. does the KDX have the ability to shift without the clutch lever? Rev match like you could on a sport bike?
3. My gas tank has a hole in it, can anyone confirm what kind of plastic the tank is? I tried plastic welding but it didnt seal properly and I wonder if I am using the incorrect material.

Lastly, what is a good technique to revive plastics? Ive read about WD40 and steel wool, heat guns etc. Im trying to get rid of some of the fading.

Thanks!

[SS109]

1. No, it is heavy compared to a hydraulic clutch but shouldn't be that bad. If everything is in good shape then someone probably installed some EBC clutch springs in it which do make using the clutch a workout. Don't waste your money on most of those easy pull clutch systems. Yes, they work, but you lose the part of the engagement range when doing so. That said, a new properly lubed cable, the KX125 actuator mod (which is way better than the ez clutch pull boxes), and some fresh OEM springs gives a really nice and smooth clutch feel.

2. Yes, it is a fully synchronized transmission. The only place you have to use it is for starting from a stop. Try it out and you don't have to baby it.

3. The OEM plastic used on our bikes is HDPE. Most will melt in some scrap HDPE to fix cracks and holes. Personally, I've never had any luck with it so I would recommend finding a new tank but that's just me.

4. Lots of different techniques out there on this as you have found. Sanding then polishing, the steel wool trick, and, the most risky but brings the color back the best IMO, the heat gun method or using a combination of a couple of them. Try out the various techniques on some old plastic that you can still find new so if you ruin it at least you can replace it. Go slow, never rush, as all of them take time and patience.

[Swanpuppy]

This is excellent information. I was thinking perhaps the clutch is bad, but the springs make sense.

I have been looking for easier clutch options and this is the first time ive seen the KX125 mod, that along with a new cable and springs seem like the combo im looking for.

As to the HDPE, thats good to note, im going to try plastic welding one more time before I resort to a new tank

[kdxdazz]

i think you will find the fuel tank is made from MDPE not HDPE, most unmarked PE filler rods you buy are HDPE and that can't be used to weld MDPE due to the higher melting temperatue but MDPE can be repaired with LDPE

the kdx220sr uses lighter clutch springs then the kdx200 and might be a good option if most of your riding is not at high rpm

[Chuck78]

If you have difficulty finding neutral when the engine is running, then your clutch basket is significantly notched, which will add to the effort required. But as stated already, you may have EBC aftermarket clutch springs installed. I have never had an issue with the stock springs slipping and would only recommend OEM unless you have a very well tuned big bore KDX with all the engine mods possible.

Thank you guys for posting info on the type of plastic used on the tanks!

[Swanpuppy]

My KDX220 is all stock (new piston and jetting done), so im not worried about holding extra power. I will try the OEM springs and double check cables. So far, no issue finding neutral or shifting at all, it's just heavy.

I will see if there are MDPE filler rods available or other things made of that plastic I can steal. I just want to stop the slow drips while riding until I decide if I want to spring for a new tank.

thanks all

[SS109]

i think you will find the fuel tank is made from MDPE not HDPE,

You are correct! I don't know why I said that. Must have had it on the brain.

OP, you can use plastic from an old fender, side panel, or radiator shroud as it's the same plastic.

[kdxdazz]

i think you will find the fuel tank is made from MDPE not HDPE,

You are correct! I don't know why I said that. Must have had it on the brain.

OP, you can use plastic from an old fender, side panel, or radiator shroud as it's the same plastic.

again you are incorrect, the side plastics,front and rear guard and headlight shroud are made from PP, polypropelene, which is clearly labeled on the back of the plastics, the side plastics are made from a much harder plastic(PP) than the others to resist scratches where as the green plastics are designed to be flexible

[SS109]

Ooooooook.

[KDXGarage]

OP, look on Youtube for videos on tank and fender sanding. Coarse sanding, medium sanding, fine sanding and polishing seem to be common.

kdxdazz, a little tact can go a long way.

[billie_morini]

well, who knew it's not all the same plastic?! I'm so pleased this topic was initiated and several forum members chimed in.

[Swanpuppy]

small update on my end. I tried some light sanding on the tail, also tried a heat gun. I was a bit nervous taking it too far and ruining things further. Over the holidays I decided to go another route and wrapped the pieces with vinyl. My brother also ordered me a new Clark tank for Christmas, so I wont be needing to patch the hole.

First time doing vinyl, it was harder than I anticipated and I rushed a few areas which led to the outcome not being great. But from a few feet away it looks shiny and updated, which was the general goal. Color is slightly off from the new tank.

[TasKdx200]

It still looks pretty damn good….great questions that we all have or have had over the years.

[Swanpuppy]

I have been getting the bike ready for this year, if anyone finds the 92-93' kx125 actuator arm for sale let me know.

[MoonStomper]

The actuator arm you already have is easily modified to give the effect you are looking for. Jeff Fredette showed me his modification process and it’s detailed on this site here…

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=23324&start=80

Honestly, of all the things I’ve done, this mod has made the biggest impact to my enjoyment of the KDX… and it was super easy. BTW, I’m running the heavy EBC springs and the pull is lighter and with better modulation than my son’s hydraulic clutch on his 300.

[Chuck78]

So stiffer EBC springs (+ extended actuator arm) really make THAT much of a difference in power delivery on our bikes? If so, I'M IN!!!
I've got 1 or 2 92-93 KX125 actuator arms here. I think the stock arm + an EZ Pull type lever with more leverage ratio might do the exact same.
The KDX lever pull is already one of the lightest I've felt alongside a hydraulic clutch from KTM woods bikes, so I was not in a rush to swap this 125 actuator arm on, but hearing that the greater clamping force of the EBC springs really makes that much of a significant difference, that's a good enough reason to go with an easier pulling setup. I'll have to make sure my AS3 Performance clutch lever doesn't already have more leverage ratio than the stock clutch perch and lever that I'm still running. I also have some other Chinese set of levers that were actually a lot nicer than the AS3 or ASV levers as well.

I'm also needing to revisit the topic of removal of the clutch judder spring / jutter spring. From what I was reading elsewhere about the KDX recently, if you remove the judder spring, apparently the last friction disc in the pack has less friction material on it, the linings are not as tall, in order to fit the jutter/judder spring in??? So you ditch that friction disc with less friction material and replace it with a full size disc like the rest of the pack, and add one extra disc and plate with the absence of the jutter spring leaving the extra space? I believe the benefit to this was that the clutch drags less when in neutral with the lever pulled in? I'm not sure what the benefit of having the judder spring is, but perhaps it gives a bit smoother engagement or less chatter????

[Chuck78]

Okay, so I opened up another rabbit hole from searching info here on clutch pack judder springs...after this EBC/Barnett aftermarket (stiffer) spring + extended clutch release arm upgrade story...
Some people remove the judder spring & it's seat, and I believe you can then run an extra plate+disc in your pack for more holding power, and have a clutch that fully disengages when in neutral - even when the clutches have swollen thicker from being hot (unlike new OEM), but the judder spring apparently gives smoother engagement and no chatter vs a more grabby engagement? I've also learned that the manual dictates that you shim the clutch release assembly with thin washers until the angle of the arm vs cable/basket is in proper spec for best leverage angle. And that there is a washer that easily falls out of place when assembling! Also that it's recommend to grease the thrust bearing on install despite it being splash lubricated by the gearbox oil. I've learned several new tips today!

The quest for that answer led me down another path... I found an old post where a member was saying that he found Honda XR400 ( XR400R ) friction discs to be an exact fit into an H-Series KDX clutch basket, with "wider" (I believe taller is what he meant) friction lining material, resulting in almost 50% more friction surface!

Come to find out that for a long time now, Jeff Fredette has been selling Vesrah VC-173 clutch discs for a multitude of Honda models as an upgrade to KDX200H/220R clutches!
VC-173 I believe is a 6-pack version of the VC-175 7-pack, but I'm not 100%. 83-84 Honda XR350R and a list of 250's etc on the VC-173. We need 7 Honda XR400R etc discs + 1 OEM KDX200H disc if using the judder spring still, but Fredette doesn't sell the 7-pack VC-175, he sells you 7 total from 6-packs of VC-173? Does this mean perhaps that the VC-175 is slightly different, since he could stock the VC-175 7 packs, but does not?

Barnett Kevlar clutch packs go as far as to list under one single part number of theirs, the 95-06 KDX, 83-84 XR350R, all XR250 models and XR400R models, CBR900RR, CBR600, etc etc (+ a looonnnggggg list of others).

Honda lists 2 part numbers, and the XR400R discs are what one member here measured as being 12mm "width" friction material on the XR400R discs vs 8.34mm on the KDX200H discs, but both at 3mm thickness & same exact outer clutch basket mating dimensions.
No mention of the steel plates on the Hondas being compatible, mind you, JUST the friction discs.
I would tend to think the Vesrah discs are a blanket universal fitment like Barnett, erring on the side of run the larger friction lining, but different part numbers for different quantities as I've noted.

22201-MAL-600 is the late XR250R / all XR400R / CBR900RR / CBR600RR disc part #

I'll go back and add the 83-84 XR350R etc part # later (off to work).



The Barnett $$$ kevlar discs don't *look* significantly taller in eBay photos, but I'm not sure I'll be buying one of those @ $17 just to measure... Honda OEM & Vesrah, perhaps I will purchase a few to compare at some point.

I also found that STOCK OEM original 1995-1996 KDX200H models came with a weaker clutch spring than 1997-2006. Moonstomper, is yours perhaps a 1995-1996 that could've had the original weaker spec and now worn out springs in it prior to the EBC / extended arm upgrade? (EDIT - your signature says no, yours are 97-06 models which came with the uprated OEM springs originally)


This whole thing could potentially lead to another level of KDX clutch upgrade, with aftermarket ASV or AS3 (UK knockoffs of ASV) lever, extended modified release arm, EBC or Barnett uprated springs, and larger friction lining area XR400R clutch plates, potentially without the judder spring + adding an extra disc and plate quantity over the OEM quantity?

I'm curious as Moonstomper was saying how much of a difference it made just to have the additional holding force of the uprated springs while also taming the increased lever pull effort with the extended arm...

To be continued...

[Chuck78]

I'll have to open up my EBC replacement clutch pack on the shelf and measure it to see if EBC sticks with OEM KDX dimensions of 8.34mm friction material height or if perhaps they also go to the "upgraded" XR400R/CBR900RR height of 12mm! Tonight, perhaps... (edit - eBay photos, if accurate, say probably not, still OEM height).

[Swanpuppy]

Thanks for the response, I don't have access to a welder which is why I was looking into the new arm . I have lubed the cable, and even tried one of the eBay ezpull boxes, it's marginally helping, but I assume I have heavier springs since im still getting cramps in the arm.

I'll keep an eye out for the arm to pop for sale, or see if I can find someone who can do 5 minutes of welding for me.

[Molly's 70]

I'll weld it for free if you get everything ready & pay return shipping.