35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Discussion specific to the 1995 - 2006 KDX200 (H Series) and 1995 - 2005 KDX220R (A Series) models sold in the USA
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smelonas
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35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by smelonas »

Its been a while, hope everyone is doing well.

I will preface this with the issue and then my findings.

I have had problems with throttle not closing all the way, it does not stick open or anything to crazy, but its a let-off-the-throttle we-are-not-slowing-down-as-expected type stick. Give the bike a rev and it goes back to normal, no big deal yet.

Upon tearing it down a minute ago, I found that the carburetor top cap throttle cable guide was broken where the adjustment threads are, seen them break here a thousand times now, I have rethreaded them in the past, but I want to either make or find a proper replacement 'upgrade' that is not such a terrible design.
Does such a thing exist? I have scoured the internet for 30 minutes now and have not found an upgraded part.
Is anyone aware of a place that sells just the bent cable guide?

Just looking to not buy the same crap for 3x the price because my top cap is fine.

Thanks all!
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by SS109 »

I discovered the same issue on my throttle cable guide this week. Our guides are, apparently, permanently attached to the cap so you have to either buy the whole cap ($45-50) or you'll end up having to do some modifications. I started looking for alternatives after seeing the price of a new OEM cap and did find these two possibilities but it would require some ingenuity...

https://www.z1enterprises.com/yamaha-xs ... uster.html
https://www.z1enterprises.com/40-degree ... embly.html

I like the one in the first link the best. I think if you slid it through the cap, then add another nut on to the bottom and then stake it or solder it in place, it would do the job. Of course, after buying another nut that'll fit in the cap, and staking/soldering, and the time invested getting the old one off and new one installed, it might be more worthwhile to just buy the cap! The tinkerer inside me hasn't decided which way I'm going yet. :mrgreen:
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Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
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smelonas
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by smelonas »

I agree with everything you stated. LMAO!

It is either a waste of time or a waste of money to buy a new cap or fix the one you got.

I believe I found a fix. Upon investigating, the OEM tubing is 0.25" OD and some crazy paper thin wall ID. So that is the problem. I know I will just break another cap in a year or two, so buying is not a good option, I do not learn expensive lessons easily. I found some 0.25" OD, 0.049" wall, seamless brass tube. So I think I will die the adjustment end to accept the stock adjuster and either flare the carb end or somehow affix it for a good seal, have not figured that out yet. Bending it should not be a big deal as I can heat it to alleviate some bending stresses. The brass should be considerably more durable than the bottom of the barrel iron-based-alloy Keihin spec'd for this part.

I am not worried about sawing through the brass with the cable. I do not think that is a rational fear. If it does saw through, I will have 8 more inches of brass tube to make another, or I will be dead. Either way, not worried about it.

Let me know your thoughts.
2003 KDX200 - Second Owner - KX Forks - Odometer intact - FRP shock valving - PC exhaust - Kickstand and handguards intact
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NV200 2019, 2021, 2022

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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by MoonStomper »

I’d like to see pix of this when you build it. Sounds like a solid trick fix!
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Let the good times ROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
‘99 KDX 220 / '03 KDX 200 - @%@ '18 Trek Slash 8 @%@ ‘22 Rieju MR300 Racing

BLACKSBURG, VIRGINIA USA
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by smelonas »

I will see what I can do. At one time, I was good at documenting things, now I just start thinking so fast I always forget.

Will keep this updated!
2003 KDX200 - Second Owner - KX Forks - Odometer intact - FRP shock valving - PC exhaust - Kickstand and handguards intact
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by SS109 »

Brass should work just fine IMO. If you go that route I would be very interested in seeing what you come up with!
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by smelonas »

So I ordered the tubing today, will more than likely have to order a custom nut or two to make it all work and will also need to get a die for the proper thread form. I plan to use the same thread form for both ends of the cable guide.

I fixed my current setup with a double layer of heat shrink, actually worked fairly well. We have an enduro at the ranch this weekend, so I have to be able to do sweep and all that. Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know where I was with this and that is where I am. Hopefully be able to work on this in 2 saturdays and at least get a mock-up of it and with some luck actually finish it.
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by SS109 »

Ha! I ordered a new OEM cap because I'm riding sweep at our club race this Saturday and didn't have time to make my own fix. Still interested in seeing what you do!
Youtube Channel: WildAzzRacing
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Current KDX: '98 KDX220
Old KDX: '90 KDX200 -White/Blue
'11 GasGas EC250R
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35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by smelonas »

Just got my tubing in!

The larger wall stuff looks like it is going to work, measured OD and it comes in at 0.253 vs 0.250 of the oem tube, which is loose in the cap.. Cable end fits in properly and should give me no hassle. Tubing is crazy strong, might even be too much so. If it is, I will use the thinner tubing. Either way, expect a move this week on bending and threading!

Now the question, do I polish something I will never see again??
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2003 KDX200 - Second Owner - KX Forks - Odometer intact - FRP shock valving - PC exhaust - Kickstand and handguards intact
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NV200 2019, 2021, 2022

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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by smelonas »

Here we go! The big reveal!

Took forever because it was like the first time for anything. First I need to figure out thread size, which is an odd size and hard to find dies for, then my buddies lathe tooling was all garbage and couldnt cut warm butter, so I had to source some new scamazon stuff(which worked quite well on this brass..), and then I was busy, then the Nevada 200, then every other excuse. So anyway, let's get to it.

I had to design the part in order to make it serviceable in the future(hopefully never), and that took a bit. So once I had the CAD drawing done, I got to work, cutting, measuring and making chips. And to my surprise, my first iteration fit the cap snug and better than factory. All that was left to do was thread the end and bend it. Well, I forgot my die and die driver and when I got home, I realized I left too much material on to start the die, so 7 to 10 business days on getting back to my buddies to chuck it up in the lathe and turn a mouse ass hair off it and taper the beginning to make starting easier. Worked like a charm and the thread form turned out perfect! A perfect fit on the nut and adjuster! So I was happy about that.

All that is left to do is bend it, and I. Am. Nervous. I know I need to get it red hot, but I gotta go get a pencil torch to heat such a small area. Hopefully make it to the hazard fraud tomorrow and get one and finish this off! Would that be something?

Sorry for lack of photos and updates. Didnt want to post a bunch of garbage and have it fizzle out. I guess it still could, but I remain hopeful and optimistic!

As far as making these for people, I'll do it, but i doubt anyone will pay what it's worth. This stupid part takes a lot to make between special tools and tubing and whatever else. If you really have to have one, message me.

That's all for now!
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2003 KDX200 - Second Owner - KX Forks - Odometer intact - FRP shock valving - PC exhaust - Kickstand and handguards intact
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NV200 2019, 2021, 2022

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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by MoonStomper »

That looks solid! My son is into machining at school (he’s a junior) and just finished up this cool project. Hopefully he can start building improved replacement parts for my old dinosaur in the near future! … currently I have commissioned him to build us a bearing press.
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~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Let the good times ROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
‘99 KDX 220 / '03 KDX 200 - @%@ '18 Trek Slash 8 @%@ ‘22 Rieju MR300 Racing

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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by Slick_Nick »

For bending, I'd use a slightly larger piece of tubing on the outside slid down to where you want it bent at. Get it hot as hell and just bend it in one smooth motion.
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by SS109 »

Looks nice! You went a lot deeper in to it than I would/could have.
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by smelonas »

So here we go again..

Got the part done and installed and ready to zip!

To bend the tubing, I had to anneal the brass first. Get it to 800 degrees for a couple of seconds. This reforms the bonds and structure to make it more malleable, like copper almost. Once you anneal brass, you cant un-anneal it though. But I'm not worried about strength. This tubing is ridiculous. Metallurgy lesson for the day.

I did have to bend it a couple of times to get it right. It required a more steep angle than the stock elbow as it sits higher and closer to the tank(see pics). On the next one, I wont leave the neck as long to the bend because I still had plenty of space to get the internal snap ring on. So the next one for the hybrid bike should be a bit better in the fitment department. Otherwise, I need to reconsider the e clip I used on the outside of the cap. I cant get the boot over it. I have a new cable I need to put on, so I might just waller out the boot seal to make it fit. I'll see what mcmaster has for other options.

But otherwise, it feels super smooth, and fits very well.

I'm almost wanting to make just one for a lucky member here because I'm going to have to make at least one more.. So if you want it, tell me how long yours has been broken and why you should get it!
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@moonstomper if you want my autocad file and justification for dimensions, you can see if the young chap is up to make you one of your own. If anyone, wants the file, I can send it dwg, dxf or pdf.
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by Slick_Nick »

Great work!
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by Goat »

Very impressive
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by Slick_Nick »

Does the bendy boot still fit overtop nicely?
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Re: 35mm PWK Throttle Cable Guide

Post by smelonas »

Slick_Nick wrote: 07:35 am May 03 2022 Does the bendy boot still fit overtop nicely?
It does slide over the elbow and the seal of the new tubing and tighter tolerances reduces any potential air leaks to zero. currently trying to figure out if I want to use a snap ring or circlip to potentially replace the e clip I used. I like the E clips size, but that is also its down fall. I really need some custom clips made for the inside and outside clips for this piece, but I will make do with what the world readily offers.

Will post if I change the setup and what the results are. Have to pull carb again this weekend to lower float level as the bike just leaks gas like a harley leaks oil. So I will have another go at it shortly.

(Re)Build season is upon us and I want to strip and powder the frame on the 89 YZ and I never have lubed the rear pivots on this KDX in the 14 or so years I have owned it. But it also hasnt been ridden for except maybe 3 or 4 of those years. So I have all that to do this summer! :supz: :supz:
2003 KDX200 - Second Owner - KX Forks - Odometer intact - FRP shock valving - PC exhaust - Kickstand and handguards intact
Lubbock Trail Rider Member since 2021
NV200 2019, 2021, 2022

The lack of a like function on this forum is disturbing.

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