Need your opinions/input

[JZ05220r]

For those who are familiar with my issues with my 220 for the past year or so I would appreciate your advice. I currently have a ported cylinder that seems to have issues with the power valve being sticky. When I go from higher rpm/throttle positions and quickly go to partial throttle the engine pings badly, sound and runs dead momentarily. I also notice when cold the engine takes awhile to clear out no matter what jetting changes I have made in the past. I feel like the kips valves may be intermittently hanging up somehow. Also dealing with head gasket sealing issues that have gotten better each of the 4 times I have sanded the sealing surface of the cylinder head (I know, I’m insane)….. I have 2 options, 1. Have powerseal replate and repair the stock ported cylinder with a new piston sized and sell the problem cylinder or 2. Take the ported cylinder apart and inspect/smooth out all of the riding surfaces to insure a hang up free kips. Then I’ll still have to worry about the head gasket sealing correctly. Which option should I go for? SS109 if you see this I have watched alot of your videos and the way your bike is set up seems like a good balance. I am almost leaning toward option 1. especially after hearing your input in the past about your set up and how well it works. Thanks

[KDXGarage]

Any chance the areas where the power valves spin have plating on them or is somehow not allowing them to spin properly? About 15 years ago, a local guy had an issue, and that turned out to be it. He had his cylinder plated and it came back with apparent plating in the valve areas.

[JZ05220r]

I think it’s possible. Here’s when I first got it back. Thanks https://youtube.com/shorts/IKo1wl_UShQ?feature=share

[Chuck78]

When you say "stock ported cylinder," do you mean a ported cylinder with stock bore, or do you mean stock bore and stock porting? I'm guessing all stock is what you meant, but the wording could be confused.

[John_S]

If it were mine I'd get the stock cylinder that you bought replated and use that with the RB head. The 220 with a woods pipe and 35 carb runs excellent. One bore to clean out, that I've read, is the right side horizontal shaft that has the oring that Kawasaki calls packing. You'd have to secure some scotchbrite around a dowel or chopstick and run it through there. I remember reading about someone's being rough after a replate and causing the KIPS to be sluggish.

PS what if the current cylinder has a crack and is even letting the slightest bit of coolant into the combustible premix? That could cause a weird lean, jetting won't fix it issue. Considering there is only 1 drop of oil for every 40 drops of gas. Imagine what mixing a couple drops of "water" into that would do.

[Chuck78]

All good info to know, John_S.
Do you have experience then, running a 220 cylinder with PWK35 & FMF Gnarly Woods pipe?
I've read enough feedback of people that have PWK35's or Ron Black carbs, + modified heads, saying that the 220 porting is excellent when paired with the Gnarly Woods pipe IF you have the head modded and a PWK35 or bigger carb.
Apparently the PWK33 is too restrictive for use with the Gnarly Woods pipe *IF* you want high RPM rev-out abilities and good high RPM power. But several people have stated good success with the 220 + Gnarly Woods WITH the PWK35 & Ron Black head mods or similar.

[JZ05220r]

When you say "stock ported cylinder," do you mean a ported cylinder with stock bore, or do you mean stock bore and stock porting? I'm guessing all stock is what you meant, but the wording could be confused.

Sorry for not being clear but I mean stock bore and stock porting.

[JZ05220r]

If it were mine I'd get the stock cylinder that you bought replated and use that with the RB head. The 220 with a woods pipe and 35 carb runs excellent. One bore to clean out, that I've read, is the right side horizontal shaft that has the oring that Kawasaki calls packing. You'd have to secure some scotchbrite around a dowel or chopstick and run it through there. I remember reading about someone's being rough after a replate and causing the KIPS to be sluggish.

PS what if the current cylinder has a crack and is even letting the slightest bit of coolant into the combustible premix? That could cause a weird lean, jetting won't fix it issue. Considering there is only 1 drop of oil for every 40 drops of gas. Imagine what mixing a couple drops of "water" into that would do.

It’s possible but the leak has gotten better each time I spent time surfacing the cylinder head. Good info. I will just call it a day and go with freshening up the stock cylinder. I mean, I did buy it for a reason so I think it’s time to cut my losses. thanks

[JZ05220r]

All good info to know, John_S.
Do you have experience then, running a 220 cylinder with PWK35 & FMF Gnarly Woods pipe?
I've read enough feedback of people that have PWK35's or Ron Black carbs, + modified heads, saying that the 220 porting is excellent when paired with the Gnarly Woods pipe IF you have the head modded and a PWK35 or bigger carb.
Apparently the PWK33 is too restrictive for use with the Gnarly Woods pipe *IF* you want high RPM rev-out abilities and good high RPM power. But several people have stated good success with the 220 + Gnarly Woods WITH the PWK35 & Ron Black head mods or similar.

I’m still waiting on that pro circuit

[Chuck78]

I’m still waiting on that pro circuit

SAME!

Who did the cylinder porting, and who did the plating?

[kdxdazz]

As stated you need to clean out the shaft hole, I glued wet and dry sandpaper to the wooden handle of a spoon, very important, when you reassemble don't put 2 stroke oil on the packing seal, you must use grease, other than that it's just a matter of opening and closing the kips to spot the binding area

[JZ05220r]

I’m still waiting on that pro circuit

SAME!

Who did the cylinder porting, and who did the plating?

Jeff Fredette, but he may have sent it off during the rebuild, not sure

[JZ05220r]

As stated you need to clean out the shaft hole, I glued wet and dry sandpaper to the wooden handle of a spoon, very important, when you reassemble don't put 2 stroke oil on the packing seal, you must use grease, other than that it's just a matter of opening and closing the kips to spot the binding area

Did you sand dry or use any type of lubricant? Thanks

[John_S]

All good info to know, John_S.
Do you have experience then, running a 220 cylinder with PWK35 & FMF Gnarly Woods pipe?
I've read enough feedback of people that have PWK35's or Ron Black carbs, + modified heads, saying that the 220 porting is excellent when paired with the Gnarly Woods pipe IF you have the head modded and a PWK35 or bigger carb.
Apparently the PWK33 is too restrictive for use with the Gnarly Woods pipe *IF* you want high RPM rev-out abilities and good high RPM power. But several people have stated good success with the 220 + Gnarly Woods WITH the PWK35 & Ron Black head mods or similar.

I’m still waiting on that pro circuit

Hi Chuck, yes when I got my 220 it had a woods pipe on it. I then did the RB head and the 35 air striker, taking my time to jet it with plug chops for the needle and main jet. It did still hit a wall in felt power early on, sort of like it had a rev limiter. It would be pulling great and then bam, flatten out. I bought the rev pipe and it was enough of a difference in mid range power to make you smile right away. It pulls good up top and still has nice low end. Back to back it has a little less at idle speed but even at 2000-2500 rpms the rev pipe is feeling just as good. It now tapers off once in overrev and doesn't slam the door shut. The RB head and 35 did make a nice difference with the woods pipe and all it would take is a little time to get used to short shifting and most people would be just fine. I'm not always screaming the engine but the rev pipe feels so good in the 3-8K rpm range. If you really like to lug the engine from idle to 3000 rpm most of the time, the woods pipe is good on a 220. I reset my max rpm every weekend that I ride. The max I get now is always just over 11,000. I've seen 11,240 max multiple times. It was a long time ago but I think the woods pipe would get to about 9,500 or 9,700 max. Both pipes of course you're better off shifting before max rpm. I ring it all the way out at least once in 3-4th gear. I'd say (guessing) that the woods pipe stops pulling around 8 and the rev pipe around 10. It's a big difference.
Edit: typing all of that got me thinking and I looked back at my "if you do plug chops" post. Looks like I did hit 11K with a woods pipe before. Either way though, the felt power with the rev pipe from mid range on is much stronger, regardless of the max. I mainly use that max to know if it has the right main jet.

[Chuck78]

Hey that's a really good comparison to know. Thank you for taking the time to type that all out.

I actually bought a Gnarly Woods pipe right before my wife quit her powersports sales job (to use her good discount!). Haven't swapped it yet, figured I'd put it on my '99 220 that I'm rebuilding, as that bike's Gnarly Desert Pipe is folded back a lot on the left front side and mildly creased... Although it has no dents! Tusk pipe guard did well!

I figured if I didn't like the Woods pipe on the 220, I could always convince my buddy to trade me his (bent/twisted) Pro Circuit Platinum 2 (I've been wanting a PC Platinum2 for a long time now, out of stock perpetually...), as his 200 would do much better with the woods pipe as I've noted after riding my neighbor's 200H with Gnarly Woods pipe.

I've been working with Lectron on fitment of the new Billetron 38 Pro Series carb to our H-Series KDX's, so I would imagine that would have the same or slightly better effects on a 220 with the Gnarly Woods pipe.
I also have a ported 70mm/223cc 220 cylinder which will increase the revs a bit (probably even with the Gnarly Woods pipe, as my buddy's 200 with the woods pipe has quite a lot of top end still, that thing just SCREAMS to max RPM like a rocket.)

My 220 with Gnarly Desert pipe + (Fredette?) head mod & 34mm Lectron screams pretty well also up top, but has more torque down low and is easier to ride slower at low rpm and hop logs etc. That low RPM torque is NICE vs the 200.

Curious to see how this will all work out. I bet with the Lectron Billetron Pro 38 carb (short body so should have low end response like a long body 35 or better), ported 220 cylinder, & modded head, the Gnarly Woods pipe might actually be pretty perfect... But the 38mm Lectron may not see it's full potential, but still, may be worth it to run that ported 220 combo based on how a 200 does with a Woods pipe on top end.

I might actually send Eric Gore a 220 cylinder and head and have him do a more power everywhere porting job or whatever he can do for a 220, + 91 Octane head mod. Trying to keep it 216cc/69mm to be able to run Wossner forged/coated pistons, but that cylinder is pretty stored up and they might I need to bore it for a 70mm Wiseco.

[Chuck78]

As stated you need to clean out the shaft hole, I glued wet and dry sandpaper to the wooden handle of a spoon, very important, when you reassemble don't put 2 stroke oil on the packing seal, you must use grease, other than that it's just a matter of opening and closing the kips to spot the binding area

Did you sand dry or use any type of lubricant? Thanks

When I use my "surface plate" (perfectly milled flat and polished stone slab, measured with machinists straight edge and feeler gauges to verify flatness) and 220 grit floor sander sheets to resurface 4-cylinder air-cooled bike heads, I always use lubricant, typically whatever penetrating type multi-purpose lubricant I can get involved for cheap, just used up all my PD Blaster gallon jug. Liquid Wrench next time in.
For cleaning out a power valve linkage bore, you're not removing as much metal overall, so either way is probably fine.

[KDXGarage]

There may be just a high spot in the bore, not like it is perfectly plated to a smaller ID.

[JZ05220r]

As stated you need to clean out the shaft hole, I glued wet and dry sandpaper to the wooden handle of a spoon, very important, when you reassemble don't put 2 stroke oil on the packing seal, you must use grease, other than that it's just a matter of opening and closing the kips to spot the binding area

Did you sand dry or use any type of lubricant? Thanks

When I use my "surface plate" (perfectly milled flat and polished stone slab, measured with machinists straight edge and feeler gauges to verify flatness) and 220 grit floor sander sheets to resurface 4-cylinder air-cooled bike heads, I always use lubricant, typically whatever penetrating type multi-purpose lubricant I can get involved for cheap, just used up all my PD Blaster gallon jug. Liquid Wrench next time in.
For cleaning out a power valve linkage bore, you're not removing as much metal overall, so either way is probably fine.

Gotcha I used some wd 40

[JZ05220r]

Tomorrow I’ll be shipping the cylinder to powerseal. I played around with it for a bit cleaning out all the grime in the power valve nooks and crannies. Even though this isn’t the problem cylinder, I decided to use scotchbrite and wooden kabob sticks on a drill. I even used some polishing compound for the heck of it. Came out looking pretty smooth.

[kdxdazz]

As stated you need to clean out the shaft hole, I glued wet and dry sandpaper to the wooden handle of a spoon, very important, when you reassemble don't put 2 stroke oil on the packing seal, you must use grease, other than that it's just a matter of opening and closing the kips to spot the binding area

Did you sand dry or use any type of lubricant? Thanks

I just use soapy water as it's the final stage of washing it before reassembly, remember to do the same to the holes for the side exhaust valves