Kdx 220 with woods pipe

[JZ05220r]

After running the desert pipe for awhile on my 220 I noticed it made better mid to top end but it made low end noticeably flat compared with the stock pipe which tractored along much better and was always ready to go off idle.. I have read that you won’t notice a loss of low end with the desert pipe but will gain mid to top. I understand the desert pipe is the recommended pipe for the 220. However I could never get it to run how I’d like. I wanted an increase in low end response, followed the jetting guide but never got what I was after. I never really needed to use all the top end from the desert pipe and wouldn’t mind losing it for more low end. I noticed many are running the woods pipe on their 220s and I can see how they have to shift more but low end seems to be much peppier. I mostly ride tight woods, atv trails and single track. I’m thinking of trying out the woods pipe because although the stock pipe signed off quickly on the top end, I miss the power it had for where I ride.. Lots of logs, steep hills without much run up and what not that I think the woods pipe would benefit. I could put the stock pipe back on but I would rather run an aftermarket pipe. The pro circuit platinum 2 isn’t in stock or else I would try that. The cylinder is ported by frp along with the rb head so I believe I’ll still have decent top end with the woods. What do you guys think? Thanks

[kdxdazz]

I've found most of the info on kdxrider is for people chasing top end power, very little info about stock pipe off idle performance, keeping the snorkel to preserve torque, small carbs

[JZ05220r]

I've found most of the info on kdxrider is for people chasing top end power, very little info about stock pipe off idle performance, keeping the snorkel to preserve torque, small carbs

That seems like it may be the case. I think I’m gonna pull the trigger on it soon. Just wanted to hear some input from others.

[Slick_Nick]

Put it this way, I've tuned and set my bike up for the most top end power that I could get, from porting, to carb and head modifications, pipes, you name it. Even with it geared entirely to a screaming top end, I've still got more than enough bottom end grunt and lugability for the tight, woods we ride here.

[JZ05220r]

Put it this way, I've tuned and set my bike up for the most top end power that I could get, from porting, to carb and head modifications, pipes, you name it. Even with it geared entirely to a screaming top end, I've still got more than enough bottom end grunt and lugability for the tight, woods we ride here.

Sounds like you got yours set up similar to how mine was. I have noticed a lot of the nice 220 builds shared online online were running the woods pipe, and Carson browns beautiful build was actually running the woods pipe as well. I kinda thought to myself that the woods wouldn’t necessarily be a bad idea considering what I’m looking for. Thanks

[JZ05220r]

Put it this way, I've tuned and set my bike up for the most top end power that I could get, from porting, to carb and head modifications, pipes, you name it. Even with it geared entirely to a screaming top end, I've still got more than enough bottom end grunt and lugability for the tight, woods we ride here.

Sounds like you got yours set up similar to how mine was. I have noticed a lot of the nicer 220 builds shared online online were running the woods pipe, and Carson browns beautiful 220 build was actually running the woods pipe as well. I kinda thought to myself that the woods wouldn’t necessarily be a bad idea considering what I’m looking for. Thanks

[John_S]

My 220 came with a woods pipe and I bought a rev pipe. I noticed right away that I liked the mid range rush and over rev it gave the bike but definitely a loss at right off idle power. I’ve been running the rev for years and still like it but there is a place for the woods pipe in my opinion. For most of my riding the woods pipe probably is the better choice but it sure is fun on connector trails and open grass fields.

I was always curious what a stock pipe would be like and one of our members here, pumpguy sold me an excellent condition one for $90 shipped a couple months ago. I just installed it last night and started it up. I really love the way it sounds but will probably be next weekend before I can try it out. Even if I don’t like the performance…I still like having a nice stock pipe for the bike if I ever decide to sell it.
This is on a 220 RB head, V force, 35 air striker #7 slide, 50 pilot, 1.25 on the air screw, jd red needle 3rd clip, 150 main, turbine core silencer, and for now no lid or snorkel. Off idle is the strongest with lid and snorkel. Top end is strongest no lid. Really not much to notice at all though with snorkel or no lid. Just minor differences. One is stealthy and one sounds faster.

[MoonStomper]

My 200 came fully stock. I liked the stock purr of that battleship grade pipe. Plus you could ride it through a gun fight unscathed. It’s also heavy enough to hold down a bouncy house in a tornado.

[Slick_Nick]

Put it this way, I've tuned and set my bike up for the most top end power that I could get, from porting, to carb and head modifications, pipes, you name it. Even with it geared entirely to a screaming top end, I've still got more than enough bottom end grunt and lugability for the tight, woods we ride here.

Sounds like you got yours set up similar to how mine was. I have noticed a lot of the nice 220 builds shared online online were running the woods pipe, and Carson browns beautiful build was actually running the woods pipe as well. I kinda thought to myself that the woods wouldn’t necessarily be a bad idea considering what I’m looking for. Thanks

I run the desert pipe on my 220. Like I said, it still has plenty of torque.

[Molly's 70]

I've had the FMF woods & the desert & prefer the desert. With the airbox lid modified, RB head & carb mod. My 220 runs excellent for what it is.

[John_S]

What I forgot to add in all that was that I’m not thinking the stock pipe is staying on the bike for good or I’d go back to the woods pipe. There is a place for the woods pipe for a very select person that would primarily be off the pipe and short shifts when they do open it up. I will never miss the way the woods pipe revved and then just hit a wall in the rpm’s. It’s like having too large a main jet where it just won’t rev.
I expect the rev pipe to back on soon and the only spot mine lacks compared to the woods pipe is RIGHT off of idle like when you do a low rpm pivot turn. The rev pipe has plenty of torque and blows the woods away mid to top end.
Buy the woods if you want but know it will be sacrificing the over rev power.
I recorded max rpm the last time I rode with the rev pipe knowing I was putting on the stock pipe to compare soon. From what I’ve read on here I’m expecting it to sign off much earlier.

[SS109]

Just for comparison sake, Nick and I have nearly the same setup engine wise including the same desert pipe. After riding his and mine back to back I felt mine had noticeably more low end than his does but his screams up top better than mine sort of like a 200. The only big difference is his is ported and mine is not.

Just for the record, I don't chase ultimate horsepower. I go after the best overall spread of power along with great low end grunt and throttle response. I feel my setup does that very well.

[JZ05220r]

I’ll hold off for now on it. I did switch to the lectron and crankcase air leaks that I had have been fixed. Probably better not to make too many changes at once I suppose. Thanks for the input.

[JZ05220r]

My 220 came with a woods pipe and I bought a rev pipe. I noticed right away that I liked the mid range rush and over rev it gave the bike but definitely a loss at right off idle power. I’ve been running the rev for years and still like it but there is a place for the woods pipe in my opinion. For most of my riding the woods pipe probably is the better choice but it sure is fun on connector trails and open grass fields.

I was always curious what a stock pipe would be like and one of our members here, pumpguy sold me an excellent condition one for $90 shipped a couple months ago. I just installed it last night and started it up. I really love the way it sounds but will probably be next weekend before I can try it out. Even if I don’t like the performance…I still like having a nice stock pipe for the bike if I ever decide to sell it.
This is on a 220 RB head, V force, 35 air striker #7 slide, 50 pilot, 1.25 on the air screw, jd red needle 3rd clip, 150 main, turbine core silencer, and for now no lid or snorkel. Off idle is the strongest with lid and snorkel. Top end is strongest no lid. Really not much to notice at all though with snorkel or no lid. Just minor differences. One is stealthy and one sounds faster.

Im interested to hear about how the stock pipe performs on your bike. I still have mine, one things for sure, can’t beat stock fitment.

[Chuck78]

"My bike has plenty of low end torque" is a highly relative statement... That depends entirely on the most extreme terrain that person might occasionally ride in...
What is "PLENTY of low end torque" for one person could be anemic torque for another who does hard enduro terrain bordering on trials riding maneuvering.

No doubt that a 220 with ignition advance set above the middle mark + FMF Gnarly Desert pipe + Ron Black head or higher compression head will have way more torque than a 200, but the requirements of those who seek out nasty gnarly steep snarled terrain challenges may do a lot better with more torque out of their 220, instead of the other option, drop $6000-11,000 on a new 300cc European bike...
The new 300cc 2-strokes literally fall on their face with no top end rev out... Yet they are the absolute most popular type of woods bike to buy in recent years.

I honestly believe a 220 (esp. one that the rider already owns) with a Gnarly Woods pipe, Ron Black or others' head mod, and either a Lectron 34mm or PWK35 Air Striker jetted properly, will do extremely well in the ways a modern 300cc 2-stroke enduro bike would, but possibly with more rev-out due to the carb upgrade as well as perhaps one of Kelly's or Jaguar's CDI ingitions' more broad ignition advance curve to utilize both low end and high rpm potential...

It was said by a reviewer ages ago that the Gnarly Woods pipe on a 220 with a head mod and a PWK35 carb had massive low end, but didn't seem to sacrifice as much top end as one might have been advised, because of the increased airflow capacity of the bigger carb in addition to the increased compression ratio.

Also it's hard to dispute Carson Brown's KDX220R running a 220 cylinder and Gnarly Woods pipe... That thing RIPS!
Granted Pro Circuit has definitely done some porting on the 220 cylinder, but still, the 220 cylinder has such drastic low end torque porting that Eric Gorr doesn't like to start out with it for his 225 kits (223cc re-plated overbore) and prefers to start his porting mods on a 70mm-bored 200 cylinder instead... But somehow the 220 cylinder and Gnarly Woods pipe seem to REALLY shred it well on Carson's bike.
It's safe to assume that he's running a modified cylinder head and larger than stock carb as well, + porting done by the elite tuners are Pro Circuit.

I'd say it's also very safe to assume that if you've got a stock 220 head and stock carb, with or without airbox lid, the Gnarly Woods pipe on a 220 is going to have basically no top end rev ability...

The only question left is, if you have stock 220 porting, but bigger carb and cut cylinder head, how much difference in rev abilities will there be versus a ported cylinder like Carson Brown's?

Now I'm curious about a stock pipe...i might blow the dents out of it or maybe even gut it (remove inner walls of double layered pipe, & weld back together) to test it out.

[John_S]

Good points Chuck. I'm taking my 220 out tomorrow with the stock pipe after running the rev pipe for years and see how it does.

[JZ05220r]

"My bike has plenty of low end torque" is a highly relative statement... That depends entirely on the most extreme terrain that person might occasionally ride in...
What is "PLENTY of low end torque" for one person could be anemic torque for another who does hard enduro terrain bordering on trials riding maneuvering.

No doubt that a 220 with ignition advance set above the middle mark + FMF Gnarly Desert pipe + Ron Black head or higher compression head will have way more torque than a 200, but the requirements of those who seek out nasty gnarly steep snarled terrain challenges may do a lot better with more torque out of their 220, instead of the other option, drop $6000-11,000 on a new 300cc European bike...
The new 300cc 2-strokes literally fall on their face with no top end rev out... Yet they are the absolute most popular type of woods bike to buy in recent years.

I honestly believe a 220 (esp. one that the rider already owns) with a Gnarly Woods pipe, Ron Black or others' head mod, and either a Lectron 34mm or PWK35 Air Striker jetted properly, will do extremely well in the ways a modern 300cc 2-stroke enduro bike would, but possibly with more rev-out due to the carb upgrade as well as perhaps one of Kelly's or Jaguar's CDI ingitions' more broad ignition advance curve to utilize both low end and high rpm potential...

It was said by a reviewer ages ago that the Gnarly Woods pipe on a 220 with a head mod and a PWK35 carb had massive low end, but didn't seem to sacrifice as much top end as one might have been advised, because of the increased airflow capacity of the bigger carb in addition to the increased compression ratio.

Also it's hard to dispute Carson Brown's KDX220R running a 220 cylinder and Gnarly Woods pipe... That thing RIPS!
Granted Pro Circuit has definitely done some porting on the 220 cylinder, but still, the 220 cylinder has such drastic low end torque porting that Eric Gorr doesn't like to start out with it, and prefers to start his porting mods on a 200 cylinder instead... But somehow the 220 cylinder and Gnarly Woods pipe seem to really shred it well on Carson's bike.
It's safe to assume that he's running a cut cylinder head and larger than stock carb as well.

I'd say it's also very safe to assume that if you've got a stock 220 head and stock carb, with or without airbox lid, the Gnarly Woods pipe on a 220 is going to have basically no top end rev ability...

The only question left is, if you have stock 220 porting, but bigger carb and cut cylinder head, how much difference in rev abilities will there be versus a ported cylinder like Carson Brown's?

Now I'm curious about a stock pipe...i might blow the dents out of it or maybe even gut it (remove inner walls of double layered pipe, & weld back together) to test it out.

Always appreciate the detail and passion you put into these posts. I’m gonna continue to run the desert for now as to not make so many changes at once. I want to feel the difference with the lectron. If I decide I really do need the extra low end boost I’ll throw on the fmf woods or the pro circuit platinum 2

[John_S]

I rode with the stock pipe yesterday and for what the 220 was designed for it seems like a good fit. The power is linear and didn’t have a hit when it came on the pipe. I noticed a very slight increase in off idle performance but nothing to write home about and not strong down low like the woods pipe. It didn’t feel it hit a wall in performance up top like the woods pipe.
You shift a little sooner and the bike is fun to ride like always. It does the job, but its not exciting. For fun to ride it’s the rev pipe no question. I bet having the 35 carb helped on the upper end with the stock pipe.

The best way to describe it would be like if you’ve ever swapped from a C needle to a D needle. I’ve ridden with CEL DEL, and the DGH which came with my 35 carb. The D needles are mellow and linear and the C needles are more aggressive and exciting.

Max rpm for my rev pipe as it sits is 10,640 and yesterday it was 9,660. With either pipe you’re shifting before you get to those rpm’s but clearly the rev pipe is stronger mid rpm and up.

I’m glad to finally got to feel what the stock pipe is like and will probably leave it on for one more ride. By then I’ll be missing the rev pipe.

[JZ05220r]

I rode with the stock pipe yesterday and for what the 220 was designed for it seems like a good fit. The power is linear and didn’t have a hit when it came on the pipe. I noticed a very slight increase in off idle performance but nothing to write home about and not strong down low like the woods pipe. It didn’t feel it hit a wall in performance up top like the woods pipe.
You shift a little sooner and the bike is fun to ride like always. It does the job, but its not exciting. For fun to ride it’s the rev pipe no question. I bet having the 35 carb helped on the upper end with the stock pipe.

The best way to describe it would be like if you’ve ever swapped from a C needle to a D needle. I’ve ridden with CEL DEL, and the DGH which came with my 35 carb. The D needles are mellow and linear and the C needles are more aggressive and exciting.

Max rpm for my rev pipe as it sits is 10,640 and yesterday it was 9,660. With either pipe you’re shifting before you get to those rpm’s but clearly the rev pipe is stronger mid rpm and up.

I’m glad to finally got to feel what the stock pipe is like and will probably leave it on for one more ride. By then I’ll be missing the rev pipe.

Thanks for that update. Makes sense. Based on what you described it really has me even more interested in the pro circuit platinum. I would guess that the pro circuit would be like the stock pipe with a harder midrange and top end.

[Chuck78]

Same.
Actually, I'm curious now about taking the battered and dented stock pipe that came on my bike, and pressurizing it to heat up and blow the dents out, and cut it open and gut it of the inner layer of metal. They are a double walled pipe on the OEM versions. I know on the old school Suzuki double walled pipes, the inner layer was more of a perforated metal mesh. People report cutting those open at the seams, removing the inner layer, and then welding them back together, and having a significant boost in mid range and top end power with the added volume.
That might make my dented up stocker a viable spare instead of something in the attic taking up space due to being stock and having a dozen small dents in it. Heck, I could even braze on a second layer externally as a reinforcement in the typically dented area. brazing so that there's no void between the layers to collect water and rust out. Might even use my MIG welder to run Silicon-Bronze welding wire instead of steel, do stitch the pipe halves back together without fusion welding, laying a bead of silicon-bronze like all the old custom racing frames used to be made of, and still are on a small scale. looks like a weld bead, but is more like brazing.