Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Slick_Nick »

I know this unit is designed to be relatively splashproof, but with it tucked away up under there, it should be kept nice and dry. I’ll try not to get too close with the pressure washer when I wash the bike! The real test will be this weekend when I have a 2 hour scramble to do.
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by SS109 »

Damn, over and above with the thought you put in to the awesome stuff you make! Oh, and make sure to report back after the race and good luck! :supz:
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by KDXGarage »

Nice mounting system you made! Good luck on the scramble.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Octo777 »

Moon stomper did you sell the adjustable CDI you have
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by MoonStomper »

Have not sold it.
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by SS109 »

Octo777 wrote: 01:15 pm Oct 17 2022 Moon stomper did you sell the adjustable CDI you have
Jump on it! If you want max power then this is the CDI you want!
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Chuck78 »

Hey MoonStomper I'm still wanting to try that adjustable CDI out, sorry for the late reply but I can't seem to get email notifications to work from this forum. If somebody else wanted it more badly, I could wait until the next revision as I would like something with a little less kick at the bottom but still maximum power up top, but I don't want to miss out on a chance to get one. I'll PM you.

SS109, what's your take on the water resistance of these? Once getting it dialed in, would it be a good idea to maybe clean the trim pot area and put a couple dabs of clear silicone over top of them to keep water out? I get the bike & myself pretty wet & muddy pretty regularly when out trail riding.
I don't go out of my way to find mud, but it's inevitable at times...

Nice work on the mounting bracket, Nick!
Last edited by Chuck78 on 10:07 pm Feb 02 2023, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Slick_Nick »

Chuck78 wrote: 12:03 am Oct 18 2022 Hey MoonStomper I'm still wanting to try that adjustable CDI out, sorry for the late reply but I can't seem to get email notifications to work from this forum. If somebody else wanted it more badly, I could wait until the next revision as I would like something with a little less kick at the bottom but still maximum power up top, but I don't want to miss out on a chance to get one. I'll PM you.

SS109, what's your take on the water resistance of these? Wants getting it dialed in, would it be a good idea to maybe clean the trim pot area and put a couple dabs of clear silicone over top of them to keep water out? I get pretty wet sometimes riding 😆
I don't go out of my way to find mud, but it's inevitable at times...

Nice work on the mounting bracket, Nick!
I think SS mentioned that those adjustment switches are in fact IP67 standard (ingress protection against water) which means they can be submurged I think for up to a few minutes. You'd have to look up the standard. That being said, I don't imagine you'll adjust them much once the initial tuning is complete, at least that's the case for me.
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Slick_Nick »

Finished my Turkey Scramble on the weekend (photos to follow) and the CDI performed well! I made it to 1:45, I couldn't complete the entire 2 hours. My endurance was fine, but I had a couple of good spills and I noticed I was making lots of silly mistakes, so I elected to retire from the just for fun race. Only about 30% of those who started finished the whole thing, so I'm happy with that. I was getting some kickback on starting, but that was my ONLY issue with the CDI. I settled on Advance 2 for low RPM, and FULL RETARD for high RPM. I am using leaded race gas at 40:1. I was lucky on Sunday, where I had my air screw set also happened to be the SSS (those with an RB carb know EXACTLY what I'm talking about!) and the bike absolutely refused to die on me! It chugged up hills in 2nd or 3rd gear barely above idle, the torque was incredible!

The scramble was a gnarly loop of mostly singletrack around our local motocross park, which included the endurocross section of logs, rocks, and big old tires to cross! It got dusty, visibility was awful, people were falling over and tumbling down hills left and right (myself included at one point!) But what an absolute blast it was! I ended up putting 2.1 on the hour meter (including practice lap) that day, and the KDX performed flawlessly! I did notice that my water pump weep hole is showing some coolant now, so I've got that seal replacement to look forward to. Seems to be a bi-annual occurance on this bike, but maybe it's because I never ride it!
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by KDXGarage »

Congratulations on the scramble! Thanks for the report.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Slick_Nick »

KDXGarage wrote: 11:52 am Oct 18 2022 Congratulations on the scramble! Thanks for the report.
Thanks! It was honestly one of the more hilarious events I've witnessed. They design the course to be pretty difficult on purpose, it's one of those "who can finish at all" races rather than "who finishes first" kinda thing. There was no scoring. It was completely open class, so there were pros, beginners, and kids all riding at the same time. The word melee comes to mind :rolleyes: Everything from big CR500's to KLX140's and 65's with everything in between. I actually had a guy come over to me and say "damn that's a nice KDX!" haha

Bikes dropping like flies, nobody was hurt, it was all the kind of crashes that you laugh your ass off about. Watching people try to get up a hill without help was hilarious!
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by MoonStomper »

That sounds like a real hoot! Would love to see some video from the event!
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Octo777 »

Moon Stomper, I am committed to purchase the CDI if it has not already sold. Just waiting to have my PM set up so I can direct message you.
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by SS109 »

Slick_Nick wrote: 09:06 am Oct 18 2022
Chuck78 wrote: 12:03 am Oct 18 2022 Hey MoonStomper I'm still wanting to try that adjustable CDI out, sorry for the late reply but I can't seem to get email notifications to work from this forum. If somebody else wanted it more badly, I could wait until the next revision as I would like something with a little less kick at the bottom but still maximum power up top, but I don't want to miss out on a chance to get one. I'll PM you.

SS109, what's your take on the water resistance of these? Wants getting it dialed in, would it be a good idea to maybe clean the trim pot area and put a couple dabs of clear silicone over top of them to keep water out? I get pretty wet sometimes riding 😆
I don't go out of my way to find mud, but it's inevitable at times...

Nice work on the mounting bracket, Nick!
I think SS mentioned that those adjustment switches are in fact IP67 standard (ingress protection against water) which means they can be submurged I think for up to a few minutes. You'd have to look up the standard. That being said, I don't imagine you'll adjust them much once the initial tuning is complete, at least that's the case for me.
Thanks, Nick!

Yes, IP67 rated switches. That means the unit can be dropped into a body of water, up to a meter deep, for half an hour. If your bike is that deep for more than a half hour you got bigger problems than the CDI failing! :mrgreen: I personally would strongly advise to not hit it directly with a pressure washer but regular garden hose cleaning or creek/river crossings should not be an issue. So, no silicone needed unless you just reaaaaaaally want to.

Oh, and thank you for the report! I'm glad you were happy with it's performance. When I get back to these I'm going to solve that kickback problem for good.
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Chuck78 »

SS109, any progress on getting the e-start retrofit project well along on it's way so that you may get back to these CDI boxes? I'd love to get the new revision design. I do like the 2 adjustable range settings, and I think I'd much prefer that over a generic fixed curve A or B setting for rain/dry etc.

But as I said in the last page of replies, I think having the high RPM timing set to at or near full retard would be the most preferred, but the rain/dry or mild/wild setting would pertain more to the lower/mid range RPM areas than high RPM, as if you are at high RPM, you're likely going to be always requiring lots of power anyways...

It seems that with the first production version, if one were to adjust the stator plate to reduce the kickback that the E-series advance curve gives, then you would also be retarding the timing TOO MUCH on the upper RPM range. That's what I was most worried about there. The adjustability seemed to be WHEN the timing was pulled back to 10 degrees advance, NOT how much advance you'd be able to have.
Anyhow, I'd pay well over your $120 asking price for the same setup but just with the kickstarting kickback base timing issue resolved. At a very active 44 years old (I get mistaken for being well over a decade younger than my actual age often), I have no plans to ever try to convert either of my KDX220's to e-start, so the kickback issue is a bit more relevant for me. I've had vintage big bore 2-strokes that would nearly send my knee at warp speed either into my handlebar or nearly into my face when kickstarting, that was no fun, but the performance achieved was crucial on those old non-powervalve engines. On a modern designed engine like the wonderful KDX200/220 engines, I'd definitely be after the most optimized timing curves without the harsh kickback.

Anything that I could do to help expedite this project, please let me know!
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by SS109 »

Yeah, the e-start project has been back burnered a bit while I get my GasGas rebuilt. Been having too many issues with the old worn out parts on my KDX lately and got fed up. Plus, my GG has been down since I broke my neck so it's long overdue to get it back on the trail. That said, I plan to have the e-start sorted by summer and have two out, one for an investor and one for me, to test.

On the CDI, I'm looking in to possibly building in a timing retard circuit. We'll see what I can come up with.
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Chuck78 »

Has anyone ever looked into various years of KX250 CDI boxes to see how they'd do on a KDX? From what I'm learning, it seems as if ignition timing advance requirements are somewhat related to port timing, so a motocross bike with high rpm porting would be a poor choice of advance curve for a woods bike... but perhaps a certain year of KX250 or CR250 that maybe had an emphasis on midrange power might be a decent fit or perhaps upgrade?

How about the stuff HPI makes? I don't see a full kit for the KDX, but they do list a CDI box for the 89-93 (94) KDX200. I wonder how the timing curve is on that and if we could just run the HPI CDI box? Did you say the 89-94 had more initial advance than the 95-06? If that's the case, even if that was a stock 89-94 box, I wonder how it'd work out if you retarded the timing slightly on the stator plate in order to give the desired better top end performance?

5.5 weeks until our first scheduled trail riding weekend of the year, I'm getting very eager to get the bike modded a bit more!
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by SS109 »

Never checked out the timing curve of any KX250. Would be interested to see what one looks like.

The hard part with KDX's is that they don't use a separate ignition pickup like most other 2T's. I wonder if the KDX could even trigger the CDI from a bike that uses a separate pickup?
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Chuck78 »

Gotcha on that.
Let me pick your brain some more...

H series vs E-series timing curves. Is the H-Series the one with the more advance, or the E-Series? I believe I read that the E-series had 4 degrees more initial advance? But then I also had read some hearsay that stated the H-Series had more initial advance than the E-Series...
I figure the guys to ask are the guys building custom analog CDI boxes!

That HPI analog CDI is listed as 89-93 KDX. I wonder if it's just a reproduction of the stock KDX circuitry?
I'm getting pretty anxious to get a better CDI for my bike... but I don't really want to go to a full Vape / PowerDynamo system with no keying on the crankshaft. I'm afraid some hard stalling or my extreme punishment could cause the flywheel to slip position on the trail and leave me stranded.

Best of luck with your Gas Gas and KDX maintenance @SS109!
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Re: Adjustable CDI for KDX 200 and 220- Interested?

Post by Chuck78 »

Looking at a graph of the timing curves of RM250 and CR250 ignitions, I can very clearly see now WHY these bikes have such a pronounced powerband hit, the timing spike from idle to power is a vertical line! That is out of the question even if they were compatible with the KDX source coil as an input...
It's not just the cylinder porting to blame, the ignitions are set up only for high revs and motocross racing... not technical trail riding or casual trail riding...
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
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'62 GMC 1000 Panel Truck
'88 Suzuki Samurai TDI/Toyota swaps
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