FRP porting..220 kdx and BJH's bike

Got questions? We got answers....
BJH
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 80
Joined: 11:50 pm Dec 13 2004
Country:
Location: Western North Carolina

Post by BJH »

CC-I'm 700 miles away from my bike right now, so I will have to hold a bit. I will look into what you have mentioned. I have looked for the #2 sweet spot but I will also admit that I didn't do it in the increments that you mentioned. But I will.
I believe that I have been doing the nylon cable retainer correctly. I will pay extra attention to this on the next jet session when I get home.

Air leak? Always possible but if it is I can't find it...and I have looked.

I think that going to the main first will help a bunch. I'm also very curious about trying a 6 slide. Against the grain that everyone else is running I know. But the porting "could" demand it.

I believe I'm close but it seems that the last yard is always the longest one.

More to come in the following days. Thanks for the help I truly do appreciate it.

Brad
________
List of chrysler vehicles specifications
Last edited by BJH on 08:05 am Feb 17 2011, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
skipro3
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 4329
Joined: 11:58 pm Nov 04 2004
Country:
Location: BANNED FOR LIFE!!
Contact:

Post by skipro3 »

O.K. if the weather holds off this week, I'll give the #2 spot on the air screw a try.
Keep working on the jetting Brad, (BJH, not CC). Sounds like you have a plan and direction to go now. That helps loads. Posting results here after careful notes helps everyone. Thanks for taking the time!
Jerry

I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
BJH
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 80
Joined: 11:50 pm Dec 13 2004
Country:
Location: Western North Carolina

Post by BJH »

OK...I'm lost and I'm found. I changed the main down to 152 and had good top end results. Then I changed the needle to DEK mid clip, and a huge smile came to my face. The power delivery in the mid to top of the RPM band got WAY better. I think I have a very good hard black line at the base of the insulator. The bike is also running warmer now. Not really too hot, but noticably hotter. I have to wait to cut the threads off at work on Monday to confirm the plug reading. From looking down at it it sure does look like a hard black line though.
I still have problems on the bottom though. Once the motor winds up just a bit it runs fine. Unfortunately the very bottom is still terrible. I ran out of daylight so I will have to go back at it again.
Oh and I did something I probably shouldn't have and installed the DF3 while double checking for air leaks. I like it!
Here is what else I found. While double checking the little round plastic retainer under the throttle spring I noticed that the needle retainer screw is chipped up near the cable notch. I don't think it's causing a problem though because it's above the white spring retainer when it's seated. I double checked for air leaks and found none. Damndest thing though. The bike runs with the air screw completely screwed in. Any thoughts?
The air screw setting is suggesting that I run a richer pilot, but the plug insulator is dark black if I putt around in the lower RPM ranges. I'm very confused still. I hunted all around the air screw settings from 2 3/4 out to shut. It still runs best shut and I do mean shut! :?
________
VAPIR OXYGEN VAPORIZER
Last edited by BJH on 08:05 am Feb 17 2011, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
skipro3
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 4329
Joined: 11:58 pm Nov 04 2004
Country:
Location: BANNED FOR LIFE!!
Contact:

Post by skipro3 »

My thoughts:
1. The DFIII won't make a difference in jetting. I will clarify that by saying the jetting should not need to be changed because of the install. But because of it's performance enhancement, it might mask an existing poor jet situation.

2. With poor performance way down at idle to just off idle rpm's (regardless of throttle position?) and the bike capable to idle with the air screw all the way in, is sounds like you have an air leak somewhere.
To discover if you do and where it might be, here's a test you can do. With a small spray bottle set to stream pattern ( and not mist pattern) of pre-mix, squirt a bit of fuel around the carberator fittings and air boot. If the bike revs up, you found your leak. Some folks are nervous about playing with fuel like this. You can do the same thing with an aresol can of carb cleaner. At idle, the lack of oil in the extra fuel (if there is a leak) won't damage the motor.
Jerry

I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
BJH
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 80
Joined: 11:50 pm Dec 13 2004
Country:
Location: Western North Carolina

Post by BJH »

Ok. Let me ask you this??? If there is an air leak it has to be before the carb. I have checked everywhere with spray. I was sure this was the problem too but I could find no leak. I know this sounds like a leak and I'm beginning to get pissed that I cannot make it run correctly. Can an air leak before the carb make problems like this? If there is a leak it would have to be at the junction between the initial boot and the air box but I don't see it. I was very careful to make the new DSF3 very leal proof. I'm puzzled pissed and confused.
________
House md forums
Last edited by BJH on 08:05 am Feb 17 2011, edited 1 time in total.
BJH
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 80
Joined: 11:50 pm Dec 13 2004
Country:
Location: Western North Carolina

Post by BJH »

Uh......By the way Happy New year guys. :partyman: I will continue in the morning. I'm a bit bit left of center right now. :partyman:
________
Athon
Last edited by BJH on 08:06 am Feb 17 2011, edited 1 time in total.
BJH
Supporting Member III
Supporting Member III
Posts: 80
Joined: 11:50 pm Dec 13 2004
Country:
Location: Western North Carolina

Post by BJH »

I will check again with some gas to morrow. Ive only tried WD40 as of this point. I'm a bit under the weather right now but I will triple check.
________
Smoke weed every day
Last edited by BJH on 08:06 am Feb 17 2011, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
skipro3
Gold Member
Gold Member
Posts: 4329
Joined: 11:58 pm Nov 04 2004
Country:
Location: BANNED FOR LIFE!!
Contact:

Post by skipro3 »

Bottle flu?/ :rolleyes:
CC should have some other ideas too. Could it be the air leak is in the crank? (on the ignition side. Try removing the cover, perhaps even the fly wheel to check). Also, check around the base gasket for air leaks as well as the head. Even though most leaks occur at the intake area of the cylinder, it could be anywhere there is a seam of two surfaces.
Are you able to adjust the idle speed screw down to where the bike won't idle? Not the air screw. I know the bike will idle with that all the way closed, but the idle speed adjustment. I ask because maybe the throttle isn't closing all the way and the slide could be slightly agap. Check your throttle cable at the handle bar end to be sure that when the throttle is all the way off, there is just the slightest of slack in the cable by removing the top cover on the throttle housing. Cables usually streach but maybe it's been binding or something. You might want to pull the slide out of the carb and observe how it operates as you open and close the throttle. Look into the end of the carb when it is removed and operate the throttle and observe the slide, then remove the cable and needle, drop the slide down into the carb and see if it goes down further. The needle jet isn't repalceable. but maybe there's a problem with it. I'm not sure how to tell.
Well, that's my thoughts for now. I'm sure that others here will toss in their ideas as well.

Happy New Year to you too!!!
Jerry

I'd rather be a smartass like carvr, than a dumbass like.... well, you fill in the blank!
Green Hornet
Supporting Member II
Supporting Member II
Posts: 1455
Joined: 06:54 pm Aug 08 2005
Country:
Location: Orange County-New York
Contact:

Post by Green Hornet »

CC-After the porting & Head Squish. Was it worth it??? Just curious, because I am considering the same.
"Growing Old is Mandatory, Growing Up is Optional"
2008 KLX450R
2008 DRZ400SM
2005 KDX 220R
1985 KDX 200A3
2005 KLX 125L (SONS)
2003 KTM 50SX Pro Jr
B Senior # 254/0092

http://sponsorhouse.loopd.com/Members/R ... fault.aspx
Thanks to my 2008 Sponsers:
Dunlop, SteelMX, Amsoil, Simpson, Pro Works Racing, Pro Moto Billet, SLAP Energy,Boyesen, Rhino Stands, SixSixOne/SunLine Moto for your support.
John W Read Jr
User avatar
KDXer
Supporting Member
Posts: 2845
Joined: 12:11 pm Nov 12 2004
Country:
Location: Sydney, Downunder

Post by KDXer »

His porting was a poor ting and his plateing was pittyful..... HAHA !! Get it !! CC will be along to answer you in an honest, non spark arrested manner.
:rolleyes: :lol:
Image

"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car."
User avatar
Indawoods
Creator and Founder
Creator and Founder
Posts: 9951
Joined: 09:59 am Jun 12 2003
Country:
Location: Midwest

Post by Indawoods »

I don't think the porting on a KDX is very desireable due to use of the bike. It may be good for full bore racing but for the way the bike was intended to be used and the way most use it, it will only cause problems. The head milling on the other hand would be very helpful in upping the lower compression 220's and higher altitude riding.

I would never port my 200 KDX but I am looking for a extra head to have milled to try out. :wink:
*** Administrator //***
****'95 KDX 200/****

"People ate cows a thousand years ago for the same reason we eat them now. Cause they are easy to catch.We're not savages,we're just lazy. A cheetah could taste like chocolate heroin. But will never know. Those bastards are fast!!! "
User avatar
fuzzy
KDXRider.net
KDXRider.net
Posts: 3437
Joined: 01:29 pm Jun 18 2003
Country:
Location: Fredneck, MD

Post by fuzzy »

Well...I'd have to say NEVER let FRP port your stuff...LOL Porting can definitely be from mild to wild, and can drastically change the power dilivery characteristics of a motor. The porting in conjunction w/ the pipe act like the equivelant of a camshaft on a 4T. It is also something that should be left to the professional engine builder. FRP is an enduro rider, and only touches KDX's. He also is an all-out overrev nailing rider. That doesn't give him the knowledge I would want him to have before I sent a cyl. I'll bet his cyl's scream up top, but I doubt most of us would ever be happy with the results on the bottom. With all the jetting in the world you might never get one of those cyl's to come off the bottom clean w/o slipping the clutch to take the load off. Ever see a pro moto bike idling around doing A/S/throtle response adjustments? :mrgreen: The pilot circuit is practically worthless on one of those motors, and FRP's cyls are probably somewhat along the lines of that 'all-out' configuration.

My karting motors will never run right unless the clutch is set to lock at about 10k...That's what the pipe/porting is designed for. If you set the clutch to lock at 9k it will NEVER run right no matter what you do w/ the carb. You can go higher, but any load under 9k and the thing is worthless. A manual/off-idle clutch on one of these would be literally impossible. Just giving an extreme example of 2T porting/engine design. This is a 125cc motor that makes 50hp @ 15k. Kinda just like the fact that a heavily built, radically cammed v-8 may require a 5000k stahl converter...

There have been KDX'ers end up very happy w/ a port job done by another builder. I know of good/bad kart 'porters' too. My friends ported (unknown builder...unfortunately) 220 would start from a dead stop cleanly in 3rd gear it had so much botom. It didn't pull that hard up top, but that's a trade off. It would 6th gear wheelie while short shifting. You could hardly feel the powervalve/pipe hit at all. Honestely, after the KIPS opened there wasn't much left. What is that, like 7k? I bet this motor only turned 8k! A given motor only has so much range of use. BJH's motor's 'range' is more than likey WAY up top. A good engine builder can port for the 'range' you desire within the limits of the original engine configuration.

Just my 2c....From what I've read I wouldn't hesitate to send a cyl/head to Gorr. There were a bunch of guys over there that have been happy w/ his work. That being said this post wan't meant to bash one guy and praise another....Just to shed a little light on porting, 2T's in general, and what they can and can't do depending on their configuration...
'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
'95 KDX 200 Project $600 KDX
'94 WR 250 Always a project
Post Reply