Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

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Kipsy
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Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by Kipsy »

It's not mine, I already have one on my bike (that I haven't ridden yet) But I don't see these too often and, well, here one is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224800865176?h ... Sw91Vh6iE7

I haven't found much info on these old FMF's about how they affect the power. I've read a few times that it reduces some of the hit and spreads out the power.... and Fredette recommended the FMF with the Answer S/A on the C-series. I guess when I get my bike restored and running I'll find out what the FMF w/ the Answer is like.

BTW, there is an Answer S/A on ebay as well now, with a partially cracked mounting tab it looks like:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363639995291?h ... SwfEVhpjZJ
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by KDXGarage »

I have not shopped lately, but in the past, those FMF pipes hardly ever showed up. That one's got a nasty split in picture 3, but if I didn't have one already, I would buy it and get it welded up.

The Answer spark arrestor hardly showed up either. $175 sure as heck is high. I am glad I bought mine a long time ago.

Unless someone can magically find a DMC pipe and spark arrestor, those are two to definitely look at. I think I saw one DMC pipe ever on eBay and no spark arrestors.

My '87 has an FMF pipe and Answer S/A-Pro on it. The FMF gives it a definite mid hit and pulls harder up top, too. It is a big boost for the 86 - 88.

The stock spark arrestor weighs nine hundred pounds, so a switch to aftermarket can give the bike a definite diet plan right quick like. If I was shopping now, I would see if the FMF universal spark arrestor would work with whatever pipe somebody had on their 86 - 88 model. Why pay $175 (and tax) for a used, damaged Answer if the FMF will fit?
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by Kipsy »

Wow, that IS a split in the 3rd pic - I didn't even look at all the pics. Strange location for damage...

Thanks for the info on the FMF power delivery. I'm glad it adds more mid hit and more top end, I thought my FMF "Feel the Power" pipe was the same as a Fatty and FMF's description of the Fatty sounded a little boring. I'm stoked to hear I was wrong.

I actually bought an 86-88 Answer S/A on ebay 4 or 5 months ago for about the same price. It had the same tab cracked but had been nicely re welded. I got it for a period-correct 1988 KDX200 project. That might be the only reason to pay a lot for an old spark arrester.

I've only ever seen one DMC C-Series pipe on ebay, also 4 or 5 months ago. I was tempted but it sold pretty quickly. Rare stuff. I loved the name plate on the pipe, though - "DMC - Power for the 80s"
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by KDXGarage »

If you can, post a picture of your FMF pipe. I assume it was made before they ever came up with the Fatty model.

If you want it period correct, it is the way to go.

Thanks for letting me know you actually saw a DMC pipe.

Dave Miller Concepts (D. M. C. ) made a few things for the KDX. Many of us would pay a pretty penny to have them now. Dirt Rider magazine had an issue where they let him hop up a 1987 KDX200. I know he did the forks, shock, pipe, spark arrestor, maybe ported the cylinder and head work, painted the frame lime green, plus a lime green airbox cover he sold. There may have been a couple of other things. It has been a few years since I last read the article. Here's an eBay listing for that magazine. You can see the bike on the cover.

Oh! Now that I see the magazine cover, I remember the seat cover was another thing he sold. Around ten years ago, I bought a NOS one off eBay.

Ah, KIPS cover expansion, 10 mm extension was another thing.

I'll stop now. :-)
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by Kipsy »

I'll get you a pic of my pipe hopefully tomorrow. I'd love any info you have on it.

I just got into KDX's in the past few years. (I bought 2 88's and a 96 and fell in love!) So now I am always looking for as much info as possible and I love hearing about the mods and tricks from back in the day.

I know the article you are talking about. I keep thinking I should buy a copy of the Dirt Rider that had this. I saw some scanned images someone posted somewhere, but the images are a little poor.

Speaking of poor images, I've attached some mystery magazine pics. It looks like a white 88 DMC bike. It's hard to see the original bike. I've been searching and can't find anything about an 88 DMC KDX test. I'd like the original magazine so I get some more ideas for my build. I've got the frame powder-coated white but I wonder what else was white on it.

I keep meaning to start my white 88 build thread, and I will (this weekend - I'm committing myself!!), but since the topic has come up, I'll ask what would have been my first question - what is this fantastic white-looking DMC KDX? What magazine was it for? How can I find a copy of the original? It's too bad Dave Miller isn't still around anymore.
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by Kipsy »

Quick edit - I shouldn't say they are magazine pics - they could be something else like DMC promotional literature or a motorcycle newspaper or something. I found these posted on an ancient thread in a 3-wheeler forum without explanation of their origins.
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by KDXGarage »

Well, thanks for letting me know my old brain is not totally gone. After looking at the top pic, I thought it was Dirt Bike magazine, but after looking at the bottom picture, I knew it. I don't remember which year or issue, but I am certain it is from Dirt Bike magazine.

Man! I can see they did it up with that model. "Ride Control" sticker on the forks, pipe, spark arrestor, white air box lid and seat cover from what I can see. I need a time machine! :-)
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by KDXGarage »

Damn, that took a few minutes! April 1988 issue.

Jeez, old man / researcher of lime green things.
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by Kipsy »

Oh boy oh boy, that's it!! You nailed it!! Thank you, I ordered a copy of April 88 Dirt Bike Magazine this evening. Soon I'll be able to look more closely at the details of this white beauty. Finally!

Yeah, it looks sharp, doesn't it? I'm planning on putting white number plate backing sticker on my airbox, cut to fit. I'm sure the DMC white panels are long gone. I don't know what Ride Control was, but I'm guessing a fork revalve? A DMC seat would be killer, but I have never seen one for sale - you probably go the last one! I think I'll do the white motor mounts, brake, shifter, whatever else white DMC did. I think the biggest visual flaw of the 88 white KDX was that there just wasn't enough white, and that silver frame sorta took the pop out of the visual impact of the white. When I saw this DMC bike I saw right away that this is what Kawasaki should have done with their bike. It makes it look so much more modern than the 86/87 colors. Of course the green 88's are handsome, too, for just this reason - lots of green w/ silver engine!

You moved quickly in my opinion - it too 8 minutes for you to go from a post about a memory to a post with year and issue. Thank you so much. I am super stoked to have this magazine coming my way. I was stuck thinking it must have been in Dirt Rider since the 1987 DMC bike was in Dirt Rider. So I was searching Dirt Rider issues for tests, then for some sort of special feature - Nothing. There was my error.

You are a wonderful resource, sir, and I have a bunch of questions that I hope you can help answer. Most of my questions won't be lime green, though, but more like polar white. I'll save them for my build thread, though.
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by KDXGarage »

That bike looks sharp as a tack!

"Ride Control" was what DMC called the fork revalve. You are correct.

Maier may have made an airbox lid. I am not certain. Obviously, they don't still make them.

Painting the frame can really change the look. I painted my '87 frame the same color as the seat cover. It looked good to me.

I used to be a frequent shopper on eBay looking for no longer made parts and such. Sadly, a lot has dried up over the years.

I was a subscriber when that issue came out and still have it buried in boxes.

Thanks for thinking of me as a resource. I'll definitely check out your build thread when you get it started.
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by SS109 »

KDXGarage wrote: 10:05 am Feb 02 2022 Painting the frame can really change the look. I painted my '87 frame the same color as the seat cover. It looked good to me.
Yes it can! I loved how my white/blue KDX turned out and one of the biggest parts contributing to it's look was the blue frame. It just seemed to make the white plastics pop even more.
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by Kipsy »

I checked out your bike - I think it looks really great. In fact, I debated doing a blue frame on my white 88. I love the white/blue/pink 90's KDX's. I also sort of toyed with the idea of pink but I instead went with white because I loved the look of that DMC bike. Frame color is a very important feature of a bike. I build an 82 YZ100/175 hybrid years ago with a white frame. That white with the yellow and black made it look completely different, almost like a factory race bike. That plus every piece of aluminum was polished! That bike is gone now..... :sad: Oh well, so it goes.

Here are the images of my pipe, KDXGarage. It says "K 13 KDX" with "1911" under it. And it says "Gold Series FMF Feel the Power" When did FMF do this slogan? Do these images tell you anything more about my pipe? I'd guess it's the same pipe as the ebay pipe I posted about above.

I dumbly tried sanding it years ago, that isn't any way to get rid of the rust. It just made some scratches I have to now get rid of. I'd like to get all the rust off and have a smooth enough surface to paint it grey or black. What do you all do in this case?
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by KDXGarage »

Where is my '87 shown??

I think that pipe is not real old. Most of the ones I see are like that. In current pipes, "Gnarly" is a little thicker metal for off-road (non-MX). The Fatty and Works pipes are normal thickness 19 instead of 18 gauge? Something like that. That had a "Fatty", but some say Harley gave them a call to complain. I know the Gold Series was several years ago. I am not sure if they ever changed to a newer name for 86 - 88 pipes.

The nickel plating has rusted through. You can get the rust off with Evaporust or similar, but just know that undern eat the rust is bare steel, not the pretty nickel plating. I worked at a place that used sulfamic acid to eat off nickel specifically. Maybe some place around you can get the nickel off. You could sand and paint it after that.

I'd try the Evaporust first, then maybe just deal with it being less than beautiful. Like the stamping says at the bottom, you will still be able to "FEEL THE POWER".
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by KDXGarage »

OH! Move that rusty pipe from that shiny, pretty frame! :-)

EDIT add on: Maier used to make plastic skid plates. MSR made an aluminum skid plate. I have a NOS slightly dark blue one.

I still have my Fredette Handsavers and the unused Acerbis handguards and rubber vent covers. :-)

... and somewhere the aluminum triangle brace piece he used to sell for 86 - 88 for the rear lower chain guide mount.
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by Kipsy »

Don't worry, that frame was only next to the pipe long enough to take a pic. The frame got a little uppity and demanded I remove that filth from the bench. I complied, but not before the pipe got it's feelings hurt..... So now I'm planning the pipe's revival in a little bit more detail to keep it happy. Not taking the steps just yet, but letting it know I've got the plan all figured out.

Sulfamic Acid to take the nickel-plating off and then paint? Hmmm.... I'm thinking you're implying I won't be able to paint over the nickel-plating. Shoot. I just assumed I could paint over whatever finish was on that FMF pipe.

I looked up Evaporust - it looks like a good first step. But it looks like I would need to soak the whole pipe for hours. I might need 5 gallons of evaporust to submerge signficant portions of the pipe, and at $8 per quart.... I think I'm missing something here... Wrap rags on the pipe and keep the rags wet maybe? Dilute the Evaporust? Use gallons of vinegar?

My hope next would be lightly rough up the now rust-free nickel and throw some high-temp stove paint on it. But will the paint stick to nickel? If not, I'll just have a somewhat shiny, somewhat scratched and pock-marked pipe. But yes, I will still feel the power. The expansion chamber is significantly larger in size than the stock pipe, I noticed that when taking pictures of it.

A blue skid plate would be perfect for protecting the frame, I didn't know any were ever made. It gives me something else to search ebay for. My list is getting longer and longer. That's one reason I like old bikes - there's fun in the hunt. Plus having the dream bikes I wanted as a kid but was too little to ride. (I was an 80's kid with a little KX60.)
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by KDXGarage »

Painted parts can be quite uppity.

I think you can paint over the nickel, but I am not sure how well that would turn out with the 10,000 rust spots not allowing a smooth surface to start from.

I think they make a gel version of Evaporust. I would use a soaked rag laid on top otherwise. It will lok black afterwards, but can be washed and scrubbed off. Chelation is the method (might be misspelled). I did some chrome sockets last year. It got rid if the rust, but the surface was cratered to a thin depth.

I have never tried to paint over nickel, but not sure what would be so different than stell, aluminum, etc.

When the "fat" part of the pipe is bigger, that means it is tuned for lower end power (I THINK). Some have measured the difference between the 1995+ Desert pipe and Woods pipe.

I started out on a 1985 KDX80, then two years later got the 1987 KDX200.

There is definitely some hunting involved in keeping an old bike going! :-)
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by SS109 »

With the nickel plating you either need to completely remove it or you need to abrade (sand) it enough that a mechanical bond can happen. Removing the plating is the best method and will guarantee great adhesion for whatever coating you choose. There are several companies that offer adhesion promoters that will help as well. Lastly, you can use standard high temp BBQ paint but there are some better, yet more expensive, options on the market. One I like, but is very pricey, is Cerakote high temp ovev cure coating but fitting a pipe in an oven can be a challenge. However, they do make some air cured versions as well that are also very durable.
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by Kipsy »

Yeah, I too thought I remembered reading that fat = more low-end power when I was reading up on the desert vs woods pipe discussion.

Thank you for the additional information on the pipe, you two. I did some additional research into products and procedures. I see painting a zinc-plated pipe will be more complicated (expensive and time-consuming) than I had anticipated. At least if I want to ensure nice results. I'm glad I got the heads up.

I think I'll just go with KDXGarage's original recommendation to try Evaporust (they do make a gel) and then just be happy with however the pipe looks after that.

Of course, if I were to happen to find a DMC pipe again with the raw steel, that would solve this little issue..... and the wallet would open :grin:
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Re: Found an 86-88 FMF pipe on ebay

Post by SS109 »

Kipsy wrote: 09:02 am Feb 07 2022 I think I'll just go with KDXGarage's original recommendation to try Evaporust (they do make a gel) and then just be happy with however the pipe looks after that.
A wise, and less frustrating, choice! :mrgreen:
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