'86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Reference and discussion for the various air-cooled KDX models
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'86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 04:42 pm Feb 11 2019

So, it all started years ago;
Having not had a dirt bike in many, many years, then later on having two boys,
It was only logical what needed to happen...

They started on a PW50, then up to a CRF50, then finally a proper KX60 for each of them.
Here, we finally made it all the way up to the top of the hill at Hollister..

Image

The aircooled KDX is of course the perfect bike for a dad to tend to beginning riders.
Need a kickstand so i can get off,
Help them pick it up,
Get it started,
Wipe tears,
Etc.
Then, be able to start right up and catch back up with them(!)
Nice to have it aircooled, simple and light, easy to work on.


So,
Having had really good luck with junk from Craigslist, (insert ominous doom music clip here)
And a reasonably well-equipped shop to work from,
A non-mechanical friend wanted to have his kids do some riding too.
Of course, here in the PRC (People's Republic of California) you have to have a bike from '02 or earlier,
Otherwise, the man legislated that you can't come to any state parks except when they say so.. :butthead:
So,
A one brother helps another from another mother,
And now a few more 15+-year-old Craigslist dirt bikes become my responsibility! :boogie:

What could go wrong?
Image

We'll get to the '86 KDX200 here in a bit..

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 05:35 pm Feb 11 2019

So,
My friend hasn't ridden in a long time, and a quad at that (we're learning to forgive him for the quad part),
And needs a dirt-bike to ride with kids as well..

My experience with Craigslist is that you either get great stuff that needs nothing, like my white '88 pictured above,
or total junk that needs everything, um, like the green '86, here.. :doh:

So, it seems that '86-'88 KDX 200s are getting a bit hard to find anymore.
When one comes up on CL, you have to jump, or drive a long ways away (or both).
Because I'm already tooling up to work on the '88, we needed to find another.
One came up a couple hours' drive North in San Rafel or something,
And it was a weekday,
So my friend Dave, who was homeless and staying with us at the time,
Volunteered to use our truck and trailer and $1000 to go get it for us in the middle of the week.

He came back with little of the $1000, and the sorriest actually running dirt bike i had ever laid eyes upon...
:blink:
As a matter of fact, it stopped running after starting ONE time because the kicker stripped out the second time we tried to start it.

Will try to find some pics, but it had old battered KX plastics on it, had been painted three times in different colors,
And about half the bolts were missing, or SAE bolts cross-threaded in place.
The pipe had been hit hard enough that the cylinder at the exhaust ports was cracked.
Total POS...

So i dove in to making the thing actually usable (Dave was MY fault after all).
It got a kicker assembly, throttle assembly, petcock, carb rebuild, shock linkage rebuild, etc. etc.
Just the basics to get it ride-able..
Put some plastics on it so it didn't look completely sorry,
Image
But,
Alas,
Sorry it indeed was.
It had been ridden hard and put away wet.


My friend got to ride it a few times,
But it was time to make right.

To be continued...

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 06:18 pm Feb 11 2019

So my oldest and my friend's both seem to like the vintage bike thing...
Wouldn't it be cool if they both had an aircooled KDX to ride to school?
I hear you can get a plate if you pay off the right person..

Since Mom had to work all weekend, and it was raining,
We broke some child labor laws, and put them on disassemble/clean.

Big kids on motor teardown:
Image


Little kids on cleaning and paint stripping:
Image


This frame was bent, and had paperwork issues.. That's why you see a silver frame being paint-stripped above:
Image

Later on,
I got a hand at stripping things down.

Forks (luckily) responded to the impact treatment.
Image

Because the cylinder was wasted, and i needed the studs out of it,
Some carneage was required:
Image

There was this short bolt, and a broken (?) bolt in here:
Image

Turns out it had this repair; they made up this threaded extension piece..
Image
Not sure if I'm keeping it; it did work, though, right?? :hmm:


The battle rages on; Do what you have to:
Image
Image


Bought a couple more parts motors off of ebay..
After tanking, it looks like we have a good one here.
The case that came with the bike had too many stripped threads, too many oil leaks, too many coats of old paint. :evil:
Image


Glass bead Before:
Image

And after:
Image


Found an NOS cylinder :supz:
$500!! :partyman:
Had my friend buy it.. :kick:
Image
Do i really want to bodywork and paint that case cover?? :doh:


Anyways, the bike had the kickstand, top motor mount, chain guards, chain guides, etc. all stripped off of it.
KX plastics, and this shock, make me think it was maybe raced back in the day?
Image

Maybe the bike had been loved way back once,
But it had since been left outside for a long, long time..

Now, i (we :oops: ) have purchased a thousand or so dollars' worth of additional parts for it,
And are waiting for things to roll in.
Still need to strip down the swingarm and forks so they can go to powder coat along with the frame,
Then we can hopefully start assembling things.
I'll be showing off (bragging) about things we got and will be doing here in a bit. :rock:
Image

If anyone is reading this, I'll definitely be hitting you up for some info.
And maybe some parts,
Because,
Dang,
it takes a village,
And I'm in WAY too deep on this one! :blink:

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 06:52 pm Feb 11 2019

Does anybody know the right paint to use for the cylinder/heads/cases?

The picture on the front of the manual shows the entire engine painted black;
That's correct for '86, right?

Have a real paint spraying rig, so I can do real paint with hardener vs. rattle-can, FWIW.

Real experience from those that know is so valuable when a newbie flails like this..
Thanks in advance.

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by KDXGarage » 08:50 pm Feb 11 2019

WOW! Great thread!

Thank you for your efforts to keep one going.

Can you post a pic of the shock? It looks like the wrong reservoir.

1986 and 1987 engines are black. For 1988, they were silver, I think whether it was a white model or lime green.

Nice couple of older and real older Craftsman boxes under the bench!
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Also Too Stupid To Stop!!

Post by Clatter » 01:40 pm Feb 13 2019

Here we roll along, no stopping now...!

Newbie has a bunch of questions. :hmm:


First, a couple of pics of the shock; it says 'Lindemann Engineering' on it.
The shaft seems smooth and not pitted, which is nice because most of the white inner fender plastic pieces were missing.
Can you tell from looking if this was a factory shock, or maybe where/what it came from?
Image
Image


Is this a good pic of what a correct '86 KDX200 should look like?
Image


Went to the paint store yesterday, looking for some good high-temp semi-gloss black.
Pretty much struck out; this was at an auto paint place that carries DuPont (now called Axalta or some such)
They had a bunch of that silly "high temp" rattle can VHT and whatnot,
But my experience with this stuff is that if you spill gas or carb cleaner on it, it just washes off.
Even if you do the whole 'bake it in the oven' routine..

They did have some Por15 high-temp 1200 degree stuff that comes in a spray can,
Was maybe going to try it.
Supposedly flat black, but it also says 'black velvet' which kind of sounds semi-gloss?
Usually the stuff gets brushed on, and is the classic mark of a hack builder in the car circles i run in,
But maybe if i do the whole motor and pipe in the stuff from a spray can it will look and work OK?
Lots of black on the factory motor and pipe, if the pic above is correct..

If anyone out there reads this has any suggestions, I'mm all ears. Mother Kawi obviously had good paint for this.
Anyone?



Here's a couple of pics of the old pipe that came off.
Not just dented, but bent out of shape.
Image
Image

Impact to the pipe likely caused this crack at the exhaust flange on the cylinder.
Image
Woulda tried to save a cylinder if i coulda, but, alas, we must move forward..


Parts piling in..! Moneymoneymoneymoney!!
Image
Chain/sprockets, dogbone/rocker parts lot, seals, stator cover, shoes, pads, etc. etc.


Pushed the bearings out of the rocker we got, the other was bent bad somehow..?
Image

It -looks- to me like the rocker and swingarm pivot use the same bearings and seals..
if this true?
I see swingarm kits but not rocker..
Anybody know?
Please?


Got an extra trans complete from one of the ebay core motors,
Kept it 100% together for tanking in the hopes that i can keep track of where everything goes.. :shh:
Image


No way to use a drift to knock bearing races out of the frame;
Had to use the welder to stick a piece of metal in and knock races free.
This old car axle made the perfect knocker-outer tool. :mrgreen:
Image


This seal set was advertized on ebay for '86-'04 model years KDX200.
Looking at the label, it says '90?
Seems like, save for a few water pump seals it might work for an '86?
Is this true?

I have heard there are quality issues with some of these seals..
Am i setting myself up?

Image


Anyways,
Except for the fork sliders,
I have the whole pile for silver powder-coat.
Image

If i can get the black paint figured out,
We can maybe start some assembly!

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by KDXGarage » 06:06 am Feb 14 2019

Hi. The shock looks to be from a 1983 - 1985 maybe. Look on Google or eBay and you can see what the standard shock looks like.

On the parts, look on www.partzilla.com and you can see the parts diagrams. They also have information on what other models used that same part. Some of those seals will be for your model as well as newer models.

Look up a "bearing race punch". I have this one, besides the factory steering bearing race remover.

http://mayhew.com/product/model-62015-4 ... punch-set/

That pipe has had a rough life. :-)
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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 10:54 am Feb 17 2019

Thanks for the tip. Partzilla! :supz:

Oddly enough, there was no provision for driving the races out fron inside the steering tube.
The races are bigger on their ID than the inside of the tube; I had to do the welding trick, unfortunately.

Contacted Lindemann Engineering about the shock;
They are, alas, no longer.. Will probably try and figure out a rebuil on it or just punt, like you suggest.

Yesterday was a huge day for the old girl!

Started off with quiet work so as not to disturb neighbors;
Got the forks all disassembled and cleaned everything in the old gas bath (PITA).
That led to some paint stripping to get old paint out of the way.Image

That led to some DA-ing to try and sand out some of the scratches. How battered is this old bike!? :blink:
Image

Case cover got some work as well.
Image

Metal-2-Metal filler works under powder coat.
Image


Image
Image

We'll see if this POOR15 high-temp is any good..
Says to bake it at 400F for two hours to cook it on.
Took it to an automotive machine shop that has a big curing oven for a bake in the afternoon.
Hopefully won't warp anything..
Will show results after it comes back around.
We'll do cases after head and cylinder prove that this actually works.


Spent much of the day trying to suss out what might be left to finish the job;
digging to find parts in boxes, making lists and disassembling.

Some things get sideways pretty quickly sometimes..
Image

Removing this rear sprocket was a bear! Bolts of different kinds seized tight!
NEVER use a stone wheel on aluminum!
It can cause them to explode.
It was very dumb for me to do this,
But it worked! :boogie:
Image

The front brake rotor is seized in place. After soaking in PB heating, wacking it with an impact,
It still didn't budge..! :kick:


End of the day was spent sussing out fasteners and cleaning up misc. parts in the gas bath.
After gas bath, things get wire-wheeled down; again, how crusty and battered is this old bike!?!?
Image

Burrs get taken off with the grinding wheel, then the rough grinding smoothed with some more wire-wheel.
Sometimes we'll take things down flat on a piece of wet/dry on a surface plate and/or blast with aluminum oxide in the cabinet.
Image

Got this fun little tin/zinc plating kit from Eastwood.
Image

Stuff comes out chalky at first, especially when you leave it in a long time.
Image

Hitting it with a wire wheel is fun to bring out the shine.. :cool:
Image[/url]
Too bad the thing is so battered! How beat was this thing?!?!

ANyways,
That's kid work!
Where's that kid who's bike this is??
He needs to come by and finish the rest of these things off..!
After like 11 hours of this stuff, I'm kinda over it already... :toimonster:

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by KDXGarage » 02:06 pm Feb 17 2019

WOW. That's a lot of work. Again, congratulations on all of it.
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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 11:30 am Feb 18 2019

Thanks for the props.

It's been fun so far.

Yesterday, went ahead and continued with parts cleaning.
Cleaning up these dog-bone and swingarm pivot bolts,
It looks like we'll be having to source a couple more items..
Image


Finished off body-working the cases and covers.
Easiest to mask if you just assemble things and just squirt away..
Image
Image

Cases went to go into the oven last night.
Hope to get them back in a couple of days.

Had to order another lot of parts off of ebay to get the rear brake pedal guard..

Almost ready to start assembling something...?

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by KDXGarage » 05:49 pm Feb 18 2019

Wow! Those dog bone bolts are eaten up. If only Kawasaki had included zerk fittings for grease. :-)

The paint looks great. I have heard of that brand before, but have never used it. I am curious as to how it holds up.
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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 11:14 pm Feb 18 2019

I know, right?

You can lead a man to a grease zerk, but you can't make him grease!

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 10:20 am Feb 19 2019

There they are!
President's Day was 'no school'.
They dug right in..


All of the fasteners and little parts that are to be saved need restoring..

First off, we have one guy on dis-assembly, getting things degreased and free.
Image

Then these two tag-team the next steps; wire wheel and blast.
Image

Finally, parts go to this guy to be plated.
Since that involves a lot of waiting, he also unpacked things and whatnot.
Image

At least for a while..
We got varying degrees of help from each of them;
It's hard to compete with a trampoline, especially when your friends are over!

A couple sub-assemblies got their fasteners plated and all sussed out. :cool:
Image


One thing was really slowing down the whole show, and it was that blasting cabinet i got for free.
(got what i paid for on that one.. :doh: )
The feed hose was always just floating in the bottom for some reason;
You had to be stabbing it down in the media all the time to get it to feed.
Finally welded up some little mount brackets and bolted it in place..
Image

Loaded up some fresh glass bead to test it out.
MUCH better now!
Image
Wisdom from the mouths of babes - The emperor wears no clothes!
It takes a kid using this cabinet to show me just how dumb that floating feed hose was!

Later that night i got some more help; when it works right, it's even kinda fun.
Image

Blasted and plated parts getting ready for some assembly.. :cool:
Image

It just gets funner from here.. :boogie:


Here's a question for our esteemed moderator here.. (Is there anyone else watching? :hmm: )

These are Boysen reeds next to the ones we found inside the motor.
Is it OK if they are bigger like this?
Do they need to be trimmed down or something?
:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
Image


Keep forums alive!
Forums are the place where like-minded, often skilled/experienced people share knowledge and ideas.
(And newbies like me to hopefully learn a few things :oops: I contribute in other areanas where i know something i do i do i swear)

Social media is for non-thinking non-technical consumer/citizens.
Things they bought, like lunch or shoes or something..

Keep skills alive!
Forums Not Facebook!! :supz:
Last edited by Clatter on 11:35 am Feb 21 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by KDXGarage » 12:10 pm Feb 19 2019

That rear brake back plate looks nice!

The reeds that are mounted are not stock. It is not the stock reed stopper. Which model Boyesen are the ones on the right?

Do you see the small dimple in the head of the screws? They are JIS, not Phillips. If you don't already have a JIS compliant screwdriver, grind down an old Phillips #1 or just buy a Vessel or similar.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on forums!
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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 11:51 am Feb 21 2019

Awlright!
Thanks for the help.
Much appreciated.

Here are a couple of pics; Boyesen 'Super Stock" reeds.

Image
Image

Because the bike had many mods done over the years,
And was likely raced,
(And I have never had one apart before. :oops: ),
Sussing what's correct can be a challenge.

Did this bike have a reed stop originally?
Think I'll have to get another reed block?
The reeds were lifted from their seats only very slightly and only on one or two reeds.
Maybe I can just run the old ones?



Another issue i read about a lot here on this fair site is the stator.
This one has some type of soft coating everywhere..?
Maybe it's metal dust or something?
Do i dare clean it off?
If so, electrical or conatct cleaner?
Don't want to disturb the glue, right?
Image


They say to re-glue the magnets in place,
But only if they seem to need it.
Think i should dig in, clean them all up and re-glue,
or better to let sleeping dogs lie?
They seem to be OK,
And have been there for decades...
Image


Lastly,

Are rims for these really that hard to find?
Seems to me there should be a place that specializes in wheels somewhere, right?
Are these really some rare period items?
Ideas?
Image
Image

Again,
Big thanks for the help.
I have done a few things before,
But never this...

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by KDXGarage » 03:02 pm Feb 21 2019

The stock reed stop looks a WHOLE lot like the one in the Boyesen picture. Look at the parts diagram on partzilla.

Does the packaging say to use the stock reed stop? Did they come with a Boyesen reed stop? The one you have now came with the "old" reeds that are installed. If they are not chipped, you can flip them.

I would not remove that "stuff". I assume it is the stock glue. I might put some extra in the gaps. There was a guy on here offering a service to reglue them.

If / when it ever craps out, you can get a 1995+ flywheel and slot the stator mounting holes to turn it to match up with the new flywheel.

I am not sure on the rims. I have never tried to change them. The spoke nipple dimples might be a bit off from a disc brake version due to the drum hub. I can't imagine the front would be much different than a normal KX rim. I am just guessing though.

Soak the nipple threads in your favorite penetrating oil before attempting disassembly. They may have last been tightened in the summer of 1985.
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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by pkenney » 10:20 pm Feb 25 2019

Highly recommend a newer model flywheel.
My 86 started with the magnets tightly glued but I found 2 of them loose when I worked on the lighting coil after a few rides.
They may have been in place for 30 years but nothing lasts forever and i've heard of them shredding the stators.
I found a cheap 2003 flywheel and cut some slots in the stator baseplate to rotate ~90deg (I can get the exact angle)
I slotted an extra baseplate I'd donate if you want to try it.
Shoot me a PM and I'll stick it in the mail.

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 01:46 pm Mar 01 2019

pkenney

Thanks! I'm in!

But can't for the life of me figure out how to PM you...

Not smart enough for this thing.

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by Clatter » 02:05 pm Mar 01 2019

A few things got done..

The pile of frame parts and whatnot got hauled off to powder coat.

A huge order of misc. bits got placed at off Road Innovations

Tried a little trick to see if welding might work to save an NLA dogbone pivot pin.
Image

Crept up on the size to get a tight fit in a new bush.
Image

Think I'm asking for the pin to break one day?
The hardness should be good to keep it from wearing out again soon, though, right?

Cases came out of the oven a bit chalky gray,
But they look black enough for our purposes here.
A coating of WD-40 should blacken them back a bit after the motor is back together, maybe.. :hmm:
Image

Bought a couple more misc. parts lots off of ebay.
Anybody know what these things are?
Image

Anybody else remember this old SNL skit?
What the hell is that!?!
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=872_1313749431

That's what those two things are!

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Re: '86 - Down the Rabbit Hole

Post by KDXGarage » 02:31 pm Mar 01 2019

You baked the shine off. :-)

The bolt looks like it will work.

The two ring things are probably silencer mounts. NOT stock. Did it have an RPS brand silencer?
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