E series KIPS valve

Post by **Keystone** » 10:06 pm Mar 18 2014

yes, I did NOT install the operating rod all the way in at first, only about 1/4 of the way, or else the main exhaust valve would not go all the way in and seat. I inserted the main exhaust valve initially with the flat part UP and all the way in, then the operating rod tip will glide over top of it without getting caught on the gears until you hit that mesh point. At that time, I started turning the main exhaust valve gears UP to mesh with the operating rod at that predetermined spot. Then when the operating rod is fully inserted and seated, it will also turn the main exhaust valve (at this point gears are meshed) from the predetermined mesh point and into correct position. Then just go back and adjust the right and left exhaust valves (already inserted) into correct position by slightly pulling up on them and turning.

Gotanubike · Post by **Gotanubike** » 10:12 pm Mar 18 2014

Sounds like you got it down pat, however I JUST noticed something...it appears we use two different center valves. Have a look at this pic and notice the pitting on the top there which allows the rod to pass through without hitting the gears on the valve...it looks like the center valve you have pictured does not have that pitting...the heck???

Post by **Keystone** » 05:33 am Mar 19 2014

Gotanubike wrote:Sounds like you got it down pat, however I JUST noticed something...it appears we use two different center valves. Have a look at this pic and notice the pitting on the top there which allows the rod to pass through without hitting the gears on the valve...it looks like the center valve you have pictured does not have that pitting...the heck???

Your right. That main exhaust valve doesnt look like mine on my 1993. That would explain why the procedure in the 1989 service manual and Cyclepedia procedures didnt work for me! The KDX200 e-series must have switched main exhaust valves at some time, was this difference recognized in any of the service manuals? I have a 1993 suppliment service manual and it has no mention that I saw. I will post up a detailed photo of my main exhaust valve, the one out of my 1993.

Joshmcmillan · Post by **Joshmcmillan** » 06:04 am Mar 19 2014

Good job with the write up, I remember thinking the same thing with the factory manual how it doesn't explain how to time the main centre valve very well. Mayble some people's trouble with having them break prematurely is improper lubrication during installation. I know if you sit it all together in the head without much 2-stroke oil or grease it's very hard to move by hand, but you can nearly blow the rod in once it's all oiled properly.

H-series is a lot easier to time the main valve is one thing I noticed, and the manual explains it well (despite the mistake in the factory manual with the sub-valves)

Post by **KDXGarage** » 10:03 am Mar 19 2014

Another great post/thread.

Thanks for the info.

Wasn't someone asking about part number differences about 3 weeks ago and it was mid-way throough 1990 had a different part number? Was that for this part??

On the 1995+ KDX200 manual, there are about 10 versions. I think after the 1st or second one, they corrected it.

frenche200 · Post by **frenche200** » 03:21 pm Mar 19 2014

Gotanubike wrote:Sounds like you got it down pat, however I JUST noticed something...it appears we use two different center valves. Have a look at this pic and notice the pitting on the top there which allows the rod to pass through without hitting the gears on the valve...it looks like the center valve you have pictured does not have that pitting...the heck???

look at here

http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... 15&t=15404

Thank you Keystone for the great post !!

Gotanubike · Post by **Gotanubike** » 03:59 pm Mar 19 2014

Did I solve the mystery!??

Post by **Keystone** » 05:39 pm Mar 19 2014

Thanks for the heads-up on that Gotanubike. I edited my post to explain to others what you brought up, good catch!

You can see from the photo why the manual tells you to pull out the main exhaust valve 1/2" and then remove/insert the operating rod (on the '89 -91') and why this procedure in the service manual will NOT work (on the '92-'94) - would have been nice if the '92-'94 suppliments mentioned that, or did they and I missed it?.

This is Gotanubikes main exhaust valve, they were installed in the 1989, 1990, 1991 E Series KDX200: - correct?

Gotanubike wrote:

And this is my 1993 main exhaust valve, they were installed in the 1992, 1993 and 1994 E Series KDX200: - correct?

Now I know why my 1989 service manual does not explain how to properly install my 1993 main exhaust valve. Both the manual and cyclepedia do not explain that the main exhaust valve was changed in the E-series after 3 years, and neither give any explaination on how to install the updated valves in the following 3 years. I have the 1989 kawasaki service manual and also the 1993 suppliment and it does NOT explain the changes made to the main exhaust valve.

Now, I'd like to know why they were changed, there had to be a good reason and it surely wasnt for ease of installation!. Are there more KIPS failures in earlier models than later models? Could the earlier main exhaust valves have been causing stress and premature wear on the left powervalve? If so, the KIPS problem on the E-series might be solved by replacing the old original main exhaust valve with the new redesigned one.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 07:33 am Mar 20 2014

That valve looks like what I am used to seeing.

It is amazing when people get together to figure out something. I think you guys figured out and demonstrate at least what the change was.

Great work!

Gotanubike · Post by **Gotanubike** » 11:39 am Mar 20 2014

Indeed!

Well I can see the advantage being the non pitted valve would stay in true position against the rod without being able to move back and forth. Where as the pitted type can possible become dislodged backwards causing the whole kit and caboodle to lock up. I would think that is what the main valve bushing guide was made for..Anyhow it is a pretty minor upgrade but one more think to add to the kdx index up in the old cranium

Post by **Keystone** » 05:55 pm Mar 20 2014

I edited my post to show that the changes made to the KIPS center valve were :

Original - from 1989 1990 1991 and with wave washer

then

Revised- from 1992 1993 1994 and without wave washer

While looking at the Kawasaki parts microfisch, I also noticed the part #'s for the left and right subvalves were also changed/swapped (as the center valve was) during the same years. All the other Kips parts checked out as identical including cylinder head that houses them. Not sure if there was physical changes to the left and right subvalves but the part numbers changed. This is exactly what happened to the center valve and it WAS physically changed so it makes me suspicious. Needs more confirmation.

'89-'91
left 12005A
right 12005B
center 12005 C/D

'92-'94
left 12005
right 12005A
center 12005B

As I said, all other part numbers on all other KIPS parts remained the same throughout '89-'94.

Long story short: If I was refitting my '89-'91 E series KDX200, I would update to the '92-'94 center, left, and right valves all at once, toss the wave washer as it will be obsolete.

Gotanubike · Post by **Gotanubike** » 06:36 pm Mar 20 2014

The reference numbers changed for the left and right, but the actual 9# code remained the same, I checked..

If you look here or though any 89-91 parts diagram will actually list "12005/C/D" for the center valve and have both under "12005"(pitted -1115) and "12005-D"(non-pitted -1157) but there is no "12005C" anywhere...what is this 'C' that isn't even in the list? Solve that one!

Post by **Keystone** » 07:13 pm Mar 20 2014

Thanks for clarifying that Gotanubike! The reason I'm so curious is because I have a 1990 and a 1993 KDX200. I want to fit the 1993 main exhaust valve into the 1990 and I wanted to make sure ALL the KIPS components worked together. I dont know why kawasaki made the change, as simple as it was, but they must have had a good reason to redesign it. I think simply installing the (new) main exhaust valve and tossing the wave washer ought to do it then.

Post by **KDXGarage** » 09:31 pm Mar 20 2014

Be sure to check the whole part number 12345-6789, not just the 12345. reference number.

Post by **Keystone** » 07:13 pm Mar 21 2014

It seems like production of the revised main exhaust valve ('92-'94) has been discontinued and no longer available by kawasaki. In my opinion, if your running the old main exhaust valve ('89-'91) your going to have early subvalve shredding. I am now trying to locate revised main exhaust valves ('92-'94).

Joshmcmillan · Post by **Joshmcmillan** » 07:43 am Mar 22 2014

Keystone wrote:It seems like production of the revised main exhaust valve ('92-'94) has been discontinued and no longer available by kawasaki. In my opinion, if your running the old main exhaust valve ('89-'91) your going to have early subvalve shredding. I am now trying to locate revised main exhaust valves ('92-'94).

I have one for sale in Australia with the notches in it. Postage would be $15 to United States. Let me know what you think it's worth, I'm not sure.

Post by **Keystone** » 05:08 pm Mar 22 2014

sent you a pm

Post by **Keystone** » 08:07 pm Mar 24 2014

Got the KIPS valves all figured out and re assembled on the '93. I found A new version main exhaust valve on ebay for my 1990 when I rebuild it. They are hard to find but still available there, just pay close attention because the difference between the old and new isn't easy to see on all photos.

bultaco4ever · Post by **bultaco4ever** » 08:33 pm Oct 16 2015

Interesting stuff on the KIPS. I just bought a '93 E series and know nothing about KIPS. My service manual comes in a few days and I'm anxious to learn more about it. This thread is cool. Thanks for the tips. BTW...I haven't ridden my 93 more than 5 minutes in my yard. The P.O. didn't believe in doing quality maintenance. Lots of neglected stuff. I'll bring her back.

Post by **Keystone** » 07:32 pm Oct 17 2015

A '93 E-Series! you'll love it. I was in the same boat as you when I bought my '93. Previous owner had neglected to do much maintenance. The first thing I did was remove the cylinder to inspect the KIPS because of all the stories I've heard about them shredding. First time ever for me working on an engine of any kind. Mine were in great shape, maybe I got lucky.

Don't let anyone tell you that you can inspect the KIPS without removing the top end cylinder jug, you cannot. There are no secret tricks. Yes, you may be able to see if they are functioning without removing the top end, but you cannot inspect the important aspect of these KIPS valves, the teeth, without removing the top end. It is possible the KIPS valves are functioning with broken or worn teeth.

Buy a torque wrench and a special "motion pro" box end wrench to re-install the jug. Throw in a new weisco piston and rings while you are in there. Look into buying the new STEEL KIPS valves that have recently been developed. The original OEM KIPS are still available if you really want.

Nothing is too difficult on this bike, especially with an owners manual. Just don't make the mistake of putting it back together "guessing" it is correct. Make sure.

You will LOVE this bike.

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