How do you go Down steep hills???

Sapphire · Post by **Sapphire** » 04:18 pm Jun 02 2010

I know it depends on the hill, the run out, the ground, is it rocky, nice firm soil, sand?? But... describe some steep downhill techniques.

I took the new to me 200 out Monday morning in an area that is HILLS... there are a bunch of single track trails traversing ridges and hills here and there, but the bulk of it is to GET to the hill climb spots..

Having not ridden for many, many years...and only MX tracks back then... I was a little nervous. Some of these hills were pretty steep and many were a bit rocky, round, cobbly rock. The very first one I had to go down I hit my back break and killed the bike and the back tire did not have enough traction to compression start...I made it down, skidding the back wheel all the way and trying to slow the front wheel as much as possible without washing it out...

What do you do? I got a little better as the morning went on. I was going down some fairly long (maybe 250 yards) hills that were pretty nice, firm soil... some loose stuff, but not rocks. I"d just clutch all the way, lock up the back wheel, lean back on it, then apply as much pressure as possible to the front so it wouldn't wash out.

I was fairly scared of getting going to fast and getting out of control, even though the run outs were generally pretty good... I think as I get better on the bike I'll probably just be ripping ass down these hills... but not now.

What do you do on steep down hills??

PS....I had a blast. i rode for 5 hours on Sunday with my daughter on mostly single track and some small, informal tracks/routes with berms and small jumps, then rode this hill country for 1 1/2 hours Monday morning.... got a good feel for the KDX! Loved it! WILL be looking forward to proper jetting and eventually RB and FMF!

Thanks all,
E

Colorado Mike · Post by **Colorado Mike** » 05:33 pm Jun 02 2010

Well, you're already on track by practicing. I wouldn't recommend locking the rear brake though. If you get that habit you're looking for trouble later on when you get into steeper stuff or need to maneuver around objects or other riders. Relying solely on the rear brake has it's problems too. I boiled my brake fluid that way and lost the brake completely. Get to a safe hill and practice going down it on the front brake only. Practice modulating it to lock up, and releasing so you don't skid. Do that until you're comfortable and then throw in turning while braking with the front. You'll see that you have way more braking power and better feel on the front. Once you master that, adding in the rear brake will seem pretty simple, but be careful with it since it locks up so easy. Practice that for a day or two and you'll be pretty confident on some mighty steep hills.

Sometimes there's not much you can do though. I run into some that are so loose you can't keep from locking. We get into this dry silty dirt that's like ash mixed with football sized rocks down here. In that, you're basically trying to control your crash all the way down. One at a time is a good rule there.

Post by **Julien D** » 06:03 pm Jun 02 2010

In a low gear with the clutch pulled. Keep the clutch pulled all the way down the hill. You don't want the 2 stroke trying to engine brake. Mike is dead on about the front brake, very important. The rear will lock up readily on a loose downhill, but it's important to use the rear brake as well. I try to keep my weight further back on a steep loose downhill, use steady power on the rear brake, if it locks up let off and re-apply, and modulate with the front brake.

Otherwise it's just seat time, seat time, and seat time.

Sapphire · Post by **Sapphire** » 10:06 pm Jun 02 2010

Seat Time!!!! Thats what I'm talking about! I'll get out there this weekend again!

barryadam · Post by **barryadam** » 11:43 pm Jun 02 2010

It varies with the conditions.

Look around the interwebs and send us some pictures of your hills. Try to take some pics next ride.

Some good vids, etc. here too.

Wibb's got some nice muddy hill vids with his new eye pizzle nano.

Have you any mtb experience? Try the same hills on a mtb for some good training.

You need to be back over the rear fender, arms straight out, with as much front brake as you can with out breaking loose, with either engine braking or as much rear brake as possible without breaking loose. While focusing at the very bottom of the hill, keep chanting "it's OK, speed is my friend.."

Sapphire · Post by **Sapphire** » 09:01 am Jun 03 2010

Barry,

You describe what Im doing....and what I used to do on real steep downhills on my mountain bike 20 years ago!

The hills I rode Monday were pretty dang nice.... the country is mostly made of Bentonite Clay, so when its dry its pretty firm, and since its been churned up time and again, its not just a sheet of rock when its dry, but it has a crumbly surface constituent... I'll get some pics...that'll be funner!

Google, "Great American Hill Climb" and watch some vids of the climbs at the Billings Motorcycle Club. Same stuff I'm on...but not vertical at the top like on the vids!!!!!!

barryadam · Post by **barryadam** » 11:19 am Jun 03 2010

Like this...?

http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... 2990#82990

heckler · Post by **heckler** » 02:45 pm Jun 03 2010

barryadam wrote: You need to be back over the rear fender, arms straight out, with as much front brake as you can with out breaking loose, with either engine braking or as much rear brake as possible without breaking loose. While focusing at the very bottom of the hill, keep chanting "it's OK, speed is my friend.."

here's an alternative, coming from someone who regularily mountain bikes on steep terrain on the North Shore and all over BC.

When you lean back, you're unweighting the front tire. When you unweight the tire, it'll be able to break loose and slide out, causing frightening crashes.

Instead, weight your front end by leaning forward (or staying centered depending on how steep) and being strong on the handlebars. This has been working for me pretty well on the KDX as well. You get a lot of front wheel traction, and can control the bike's direction as you roll down the hill with the clutch in.

Sapphire · Post by **Sapphire** » 08:45 am Jun 04 2010

I think on relatively firm ground your idea is great heck... but I sure wouldn't want to try it on loose rock... however...after many, many years of riding... and challenging one's self and such... I bet a good rider could keep the bike upright using only the front brakes, even on marbles!

I dont feel like I could unweight the front tire enough on the KDX... on my mountain bike, I could drop my seat and sit over, almost behind the back tire and get the front tire pretty light, but no way to get that far back on the KDX...plus...the KDX weighs 2 fiddy and not 18#...

Good stuff though...thanks all!

heckler · Post by **heckler** » 12:08 pm Jun 04 2010

good point on the bike weight.

but 18 lbs? that's not a DH bike.

barryadam · Post by **barryadam** » 12:25 pm Jun 04 2010

Sapphire wrote:.and what I used to do on real steep downhills on my mountain bike 20 years ago!

...prolly was an 18 lb. downhill bike back then.

and a hard tail/rigid fork to boot!

kawagumby · Post by **kawagumby** » 12:50 pm Jun 04 2010

Heckler is right on about staying centered - you need to be able to steer and move about on the bike - using legs and thighs to hang on is critical to keep the upper body loose. Someone else said to stay in a low gear - not a good idea, IMO, but the clutch-in part was right tho. You should be in a gear or two higher than your start speed coming down a hill - your best asset is the throttle to straighten out a bike that gets sideways, and the throttle can also get you going in the right direction when you come to a run-out spot. I usually stick the bike into third gear as a start on any downhill that can build speed, let out the clutch and hit the throttle as needed. A motorcycle on a steep down hill is just an overweight mountain bike - isn't it? Downhills that require the maximum use of the front brake usually have places that you can hit the brakes hard and places you don't want to use the front brake at all. The rear brake is close to useless on steep hills. I look at a curvy messed up hill as a series of mini-straights that you can use for braking. Practice looking for those lines and use them to keep the speed in check.

frankenschwinn · Post by **frankenschwinn** » 01:00 pm Jun 04 2010

[quote=" A motorcycle on a steep down hill is just an overweight mountain bike - isn't it? Downhills that require the maximum use of the front brake usually have places that you can hit the brakes hard and places you don't want to use the front brake at all. The rear brake is close to useless on steep hills. I look at a curvy messed up hill as a series of mini-straights that you can use for braking. Practice looking for those lines and use them to keep the speed in check.[/quote]

Dh on a mountain bike is so much different. I can hit steep descents on my DH mtn bike so much faster and with much more confidence. both require good brake control since you can't steer well with the brakes locked. feather the brakes and don't get too heavy handed on the front.

kawagumby · Post by **kawagumby** » 02:12 pm Jun 04 2010

I was trying to be facetious - yes, P=MV.

However, the principles are the same - it is all about control.

Road Dawg · Post by **Road Dawg** » 04:01 pm Jun 04 2010

I usually roll head over tincups myself!

Sapphire · Post by **Sapphire** » 09:01 pm Jun 05 2010

Today I was on much shorter hills, but just as steep as last Monday... similar soils, very little rock... I played with my breaking quite a bit. I got to the point where I could dang near lock up my front and still keep contril...was happy with that... I also was using about 3rd or 4th gear, so when I let off the rear (which was most the time) the back wheel wasn't skidding cause of compression and I wasn't using the motor to break at all... Everything worked great...never did an endo and actually never even tipped her over today!

After reading several of the threads here and at TT I was also trying some other stuff...I was surprised how feathering the front break, while accelerating through a not so smooth corner, helped the front wheel track a little better!

I read that somewhere on an MX forum where they were doing that in the rutted corners, breaking the front and accelerating through that corner... it worked!

Today was fun chit.... some real nice single track with some fast easy, rolly sections and some tight, slow rocky sections.... Cant WAIT to get back there!

As for the MT bike... shoot guys, they didn't even have downhill bikes back then, it was just a mountain bike. I guessed at the weight... ??

NO shocks, front or rear, but some of my buddies had fork/shocks and one even had a rear shock on his Canondale...that thing was SOOOOO fricken nice to ride compared to my hard tail....ugg.....

wbdisco · Post by **wbdisco** » 08:09 pm Aug 17 2010

I have the same issue with wanting to lock the rear brake. I have had about a 10 year break between riding, and I guess me getting older has made me waaay more cautious. It is hard for me to want to use the front brake going downhill, but I guess when the rear is locked and you sliding down you don't have much of a choice if you want to slow down or stop

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How do you go Down steep hills???

How do you go Down steep hills???