AN EASY RIDING TIP

[Duke]

During my most recent trail ride, I had someone of much better skill then I recommend a little riding tip, that perhaps for most of you is obvious. But for me it was revelation in that it greatly aided my ability to negotiate turns better. It was recommended that as I enter a turn, I should really tilt my head in the same direction. For, me no other tip has rendered such an improvement with so little practice required. By leaning the head in the same direction, you significant reduce target fixation and the body seems to effortlessly direct the bike to where you want. Again this may same very elementary, but it was something that I never really focused on.

[Ondatrail]

I found out lately that pushing down on the outside foot peg is excellent too.

Tall seat doesn't hurt either

[Jeb]

Looking where you want to go seems like a no-brainer until you think about it and, while you're in the tight stuff, find yourself looking immediately in front of your bike . . . on the ground.

Looking up at what's ahead of me - as far as I can see - makes me go faster!!

And if you're trying to navigate around a rock or something and find yourself fixated on that rock, you'll probably HIT it. Look to the side of it.

After looking at your pics of the Guts seat, Ondatrail, I'm seriously thinkin' about following suit.

[scheckaet]

After looking at your pics of the Guts seat, Ondatrail, I'm seriously thinkin' about following suit.

Me to, if only I wasn't so broke
How much does a new foam and cover cost these days?

[skipro3]

During my most recent trail ride, I had someone of much better skill then I recommend a little riding tip, that perhaps for most of you is obvious. But for me it was revelation in that it greatly aided my ability to negotiate turns better. It was recommended that as I enter a turn, I should really tilt my head in the same direction. For, me no other tip has rendered such an improvement with so little practice required. By leaning the head in the same direction, you significant reduce target fixation and the body seems to effortlessly direct the bike to where you want. Again this may same very elementary, but it was something that I never really focused on.

It's called leading with your eyes.

Watch a motorcycle policeman make a U turn from a dead stop along side the road; he will look completely over his left shoulder to where he's planning to be, then takes off. He leads with his eyes and the bike will follow that lead.

[Ondatrail]

How much does a new foam and cover cost these days?

Mine costed 55 for the foam and 65 for the cover

[2001kdx]

Jeb, I took a spin on Onda's bike today and the seat, as far as seats go, is a HUGE improvement. It really is - firmer, taller, more room between seat and the pegs, easier to slide to the tank and generally just an improved riding position - Just one thing: Ondatrail is running "Medium" firmness..... It's stiff. This is coming from a guy that rides MX bikes, it's a bit stiffer than mine, but that may be becuase it has yet to really see a lot of seat time (No pun intended) :)

I say go for it.

[jc7622]

Regarding the tall seat...I'm about 5'-11" and a foot dabber. Is the seat so much higher that someone my height will have trouble reaching the ground when they feel the need to dab?

[Jeb]

Foot "dabbing" - what exactly is that? I'm trying to picture it and can't . . .

[Ondatrail]

I am in fact 5'11" too and have had only a little problems because I'm adjusting to it (same thing when I first bought the bike, coming offa short n stout RT180)

[jc7622]

Foot "dabbing" - what exactly is that? I'm trying to picture it and can't . . .

A "dab" or "dabbing" is a term used in trials competitions for when your foot touches the ground. I dab when I am in tough or very technical terrain and need to put my foot down to keep from falling over.
The guys in the video below are doing a lot of dabbing.

[Jeb]

OK, I see now. I thought it might just be the way you described what you were doing, little did I know it was a specific word used with the trials guys . . .

I used to dabble with dabbing until physics replaced some of my dabble with wobble, i.e. torn ACL. 'Whole different thing though because most of the terrain I ride permits faster speeds. For me "a little dab 'll do ya!"

Anyway your question is a good one; most often when I've stopped unexpectedly I'm typically on an incline, so a taller seat height could be trickier

[vaderoni]

On the leading with your eyes. I actually learned to do that on horses a long time ago, so it was somewhat natural for me when I got a bike. (The horse will be more willing to go where you want to when you turn your head and its with the reins towards where you want to go.)

[KDX Butterfly]

"It's called leading with your eyes."


This is the greatest tip any of you ever gave me. It WORKS!!!! Sure helped me out a TON!!! Now, I watch where I am going ... not looking at the tree I am about to run into. Oooo! There went the tree, and I'm still on two wheels!

[canyncarvr]

I don't think the original post had anything to do with 'target fixation', but head angle. The reason I think that is 'cuz that is exactly what he said.

..you significant(ly) reduce target fixation...

The tip he posted resulted in part in reduced fixation, but it wasn't fixation he was talking about.


You will go where your eyes are looking. A sure way to miss that tree that's coming up is to NOT look at it, which is what Ms. LaLa said.


But....I do think he maybe stated it backwards. To the 'other side' anyway. If you are entering a LH turn, you don't tilt your head to the left. You don't tilt AND turn your head to the same angle/direction you are turning. You tilt your head to correct the angle your bike is leaning (the opposite direction), you turn your head to point where the bike is going (the same direction).

Like these guys are doing...yanno? Well...kind'a anyway. When they aren't crumpling/skidding into piles or one another.

'Tilt' and 'turn' isn't the same thing..and neither has to do necessarily with 'target fixation'.

[kawagumby]

yep, I know what you mean...I take the foam out of my goggles cause I sweat too much, and now and then a bee or somethn gets in 'em. I notice my head tilts all over the place while I target fixate on the bee. Just happened today, as a matter-of-fact. I tried to look ahead but the bee (or whatever the thing was) got my attention/fixation but stayed out of focus, not a good thing to happen whilst jamm'n. Not good at all.

Isn't it kinda natural to keep your head vertical while leaning a bike over? I can't imagine Manfred Von Richtofen having to interject thought about that while shooting down Spads and Bristols. So technically aren't you keeping your head relatively still while the rest of your body actually does the tilting? Wouldn't consciously tilting your head be counter-intuitive and kinda weird?

[Duke]

I am glad to see that my posting incited some valid comments. Based on my experience, the tactic of leaning the head helps to fascilitate the habit of leading with the eyes. Its difficult to fixate on the front fender when your head is tilted into the turn. This and the use of counter steering serve as the basics of effectivley getting a motorcyle to turn. All the other techniques-weighting outside peg, outside elbow, ect- are valid and important, but are secondary in terms importance and what needs to be mastered first.

[kawagumby]

Another perspective:

Counter-steering on dirt bikes is hardly ever used by most riders, except maybe in trials-like situations along single track next to cliffs. I used to use it for balance when developing my low speed mountain bike skills and sparingly use it off-road (mostly on slow off-camber single track for balance), the trouble with dirt bikes is the dirt...it doesn't provide the kind of stable traction the asphalt does...and you don't lean dirt bikes like you do a street bike, your body positioning is different and much more animated But mostly you don't have either the time or consistant surfaces to worry about counter-steering, when you go into a turn and the front wheel eventually washes (loses traction), you will need to be in a weight-forward position and be able to instantly back off the steering angle to regain front traction....you'll see.

Most dirt riding methods are really intuitive, once you get past the "what's going on?" stage. if you lean the bike over in a turn, your body weight (while your upper body stays mostly vertical) will naturally be placed on that outside peg or your ass be stuck on the outside edge of the seat - you shift your body weight all over the place for traction - front and rear, one side or the other, you don't brake hard in the rough so your suspension doesn't get bound up by the braking action....all this stuff just clicks with some time in the saddle. I can't believe you need to be told to tilt your head when you lean over in a turn...that should be a natural happening, methinks. But maybe we're talking about two different things.

When you speed up some in your riding, that front fender will never be part of your field of vision except when you pull long wheelies or you look down at it as you sail forward over the bike, heh...

At the risk of sounding simple, I've always felt that the best learning technique is just to ride, ride, ride - and always find increasingly challenging trails to develop skills, especially for body positioning, braking etc. Carry some of your weight with your legs, don't just use the seat, doing so will help you get a feel for how to weight-bias the bike while riding. People who just ride fireroads and wide public trails don't improve much over time either, challenge yourself and don't be afraid of the occasional low speed get-off. I've been riding since 1963 so I'm basically a shot off-road rider with the experience that comes with that, but I don't pretend to know-it-all either.

http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/modules. ... _album.php

[Duke]

"Counter-steering on dirt bikes is hardly ever used by most riders, except maybe in trials-like situations along single track next to cliffs. I used to use it for balance when developing my low speed mountain bike skills and sparingly use it off-road (mostly on slow off-camber single track for balance), "

Actually the tactic of counter steering has to be employed when speeds exceed approx 12-18 MPH. Do a Google search and you will find a plethora of well written articles making supportive arguments based on physics. The most convincing is a treatise offered by master road race instructer Keith Code. And traversing fire roads serves as but a portion of my riding diet; single track, open desert and MX tracks constitute the rest. While not 60, I am 50 and began riding back in 71. I just never started racing until my 30's.

[kawagumby]

I respectfully disagree. Counter steering can be used at any speed, and the effectiveness depends upon many factors, one of which is the weight, i.e., momentum of the bike being used. The 12-16 MPH is the normal area for initial use on street bikes.

Yes... a google to WIKI gives this...
"At low speeds countersteering is equally necessary, but the countersteering is then so subtle that it is hidden by the continuous corrections that are made in balancing the bike, often falling below a just noticeable difference or threshold of perception of the rider. Countersteering at low speed may be further concealed by the ensuing much larger steering angle possible in the direction of the turn."

I am not even close to being a novice rider anymore, and I have used very low speed counter-steering, both handlebar initiated and by other means, for both mountain biking and slow single tracking on dirt motorcycles when injured and just trying to get back intact.

At normal trail speeds, those above 12-16 mph, I can't imagine using street-bike handlebar techniques for the reasons I stated in my last post. That doesn't mean someone else can't use it effectively though, so maybe my viewpoint isn't universally valid. I will say that I am and have ridden with expert riders for many years, including district 36 class champs, and my, ahem, nephew who is an ISDE rider, and in all those years I've never heard of anyone using street bike counter-steering on a dirt bike. But it could be I just need to learn something more.....

Maybe someone else can chime in on this.. does anyone use counter-steering off-road at normal trail speeds? Now I'm curious -