Vforce3 reeds

A reference for the PWK carbs...
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Vforce3 reeds

Post by 96Kdxrider96 » 03:43 pm Jan 26 2019

Okay, im new to this site so go easy on me. lol anyway i have a 96 kdx200 that i recently rebuilt the top end on. I put a vforce3 reed cage in it, thats the only performance part i added. The bike wont start, not even when i try to bump start it. I know the airflow changes but some say it needs to be richened out because of the added flow but some also say that the more airflow creates a bigger pulse so it draws more fuel in and needs to be leaned out. I dont know but i need to know what baseline to set my carb too so it will start. My elevation is 1700 to 1800 feet above, i have a pro circuit platinum and a fmf powercore2 silencer. Where do i need to set my carb at to at least get it to where it runs. Im in wv and its really cold(in the teens usually). If you need anymore info just ask

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by KDXGarage » 05:43 pm Jan 26 2019

Welcome to kdxrider.net.

Was it running when you did the top end?

Why did you do the top end?

Does it kick over?

I would assume that the reed valve is not the issue.
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by 96Kdxrider96 » 03:42 am Jan 27 2019

It was really low on power so i took the jug off and seen that the cylinder sleeve had rotated and caused about a 1/3rd blockage of the ports so i assumed that was the hard start right there lol but i didnt think it would have been the low compression culprit so i went ahead and ordered rings and i wanted a more crisp and snappy throttle response and heard the vforce3 reed cage gave a better low down pull and was more responsive to quick throttle blips. It kicks over and it does has descent compression, i dont believe the reed cage is the issue im just trying to see if somebody knows given my altitude and mods to the bike where i should set the carb to where it will at least run. I dont know if its running too rich to start or too lean. Plug smelled like fuel but was soaked, but did have some fuel on it. I heard people say they had to lower the needle jet a notch or two but wanted to be sure that that was indeed what i needed to do before taking it apart and changing it. Its got stock jetting and it did run a tad rich before when it ran good and had good compression. Given my altitude and mods do you think i should lower the needle? I dont have any jets as of now to go up or down on jetting, but i can order some if thats the issue for sure.

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by Molly's 70 » 05:21 am Jan 27 2019

How did you fix the jug with the rotated sleeve? I also doubt the reed are the problem. What jets are in your carb now?
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by 96Kdxrider96 » 06:35 am Jan 27 2019

Let me sorta clear this up. The reeds themselves arent faulted...BUT i had stock reeds before this so the vforce3 reeds where they flow or breathe better has changed how the bike will perform but the carb is still on stock reed settings which isnt letting the bike start with the vforce3 reeds. I know the reeds are good its the carb adjustment i need help with. As far as the rotated sleeve, there was a hole in the sleeve and the jug so im assuming the previous owner had it drilled and possibly tapped which i wouldnt and didnt do. I researched the sleeve to see if thats something 2 strokes do and didnt see anything on the subject so i took a tiny amount of jb weld and put it on the jug and slid the sleeve back into place. All the ports are open, the jb weld didnt cover or fill any ports and it was literally just enough to give a grip to the sleeve so it doesnt rotate. All i need is somebody that has close to the same setup as mine to tell me what their mixture screw and needle is set at. I mentioned the bike has stock jets in it and vforce3 said that bikes very seldom need rejetted but the carb will need to be tuned to the reeds, obviously.

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by Molly's 70 » 07:09 am Jan 27 2019

Try 1 to 1 1/2 turns out. Every bike is a little different. To me, it sounds like you have no spark or no fuel.
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by 96Kdxrider96 » 07:54 am Jan 27 2019

I have both spark and fuel. I said earlier that the spark plug was wet and smelled like fuel but wasnt sure if it was enough fuel to fowl it. I had it set for 1 1/2 turns out because thats the usual baseline to start an engine but it must be different with the vforce reeds because it didnt work. Im not a newb to engines just a newb to vforce3 reeds and how it affects my engine. I've done motor work for years on small and big engines. I keep the family trucks up and running. I guess i will just drop the needle one notch and see if that helps. I was hoping somebody on here had the same or similar setup for their kdx and not just say "well you probably should do"...i appreciate the comments but i guess i was hoping for "yeah i know whats wrong with it, do this". Trial and error isnt fun when you have to push and or kick for 20 minutes and nothing happen.

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by Molly's 70 » 08:54 am Jan 27 2019

Install a brand new spark plug & I bet it starts.
If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by KDXGarage » 01:12 pm Jan 27 2019

WOW. The sleeve rotated. That's not good at all.

Going up or down on jets is not going to be related to it not starting. Focus elsewhere. Buy a new NGK BR8ES spark plug.

Which plug is in it now?

If a new plug does not do it, spray some starter fluid.

You are getting SOME fuel and SOME spark, but it may not be "proper" fuel or spark.

Again, buy and install a new NGK BR8ES spark plug. Auto parts stores sometimes have them.
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by G22inSC » 03:01 pm Jan 27 2019

Just my opinion, but I would sort out the cylinder before I even worried about it not starting and possible jetting issues.
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by 96Kdxrider96 » 04:18 pm Jan 27 2019

I have an e3 spark plug in it. I will buy another one of them. I still think the carb needs adjusted because it makes no sense that the vforce does any difference in flow and power if the carb doesnt need changed at all. If it flows more it needs to be adjusted whether it draws more air and needs more fuel or if the pulse draws more fuel and needs to be leaned out something needs to change. A new spark plug wouldnt be bad i just wanted to save myself a lot of headache figuring out the carb.

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by KDXGarage » 05:06 pm Jan 27 2019

which E3 plug?

How old is the fuel?
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by 6 Riders » 05:50 pm Jan 27 2019

Forget about the e3 plug. Just get an NGK BR8es from oriellys, there about $3, infact get a few of them.
If you think the reeds are causing the starting issues, put the stock reeds back in and try to start it..... Don't use the e3 plug!
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by 96Kdxrider96 » 09:42 pm Jan 27 2019

I wont use anything but e3, its the best plug i have ever used hands down. I can chug my bike way down low for a good while and have never fouled that plug. And the stock reeds were wore out so it wont work with them. Im not trying to be rude but i dont need any other advice as for carb settings and im not getting anywhere with the current replies, my old reeds are jacked thats why i replaced them. I simply asked for a carb tune setup if you have a similar setup and i have gotten everything but that. E3 is a great spark plug and well worth the extra 2 dollars over an ngk. I noticed an improvement with how the bike ran when i went to e3 and its made it at least a year with zero problems. Also i have said several times that i know the reeds are not damaged or faulty the carb just needs adjusted to the reeds.

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by KDXGarage » 09:46 pm Jan 27 2019

Am I incorrect in inferring that you believe that incorrect jet sizes are keeping your bike from starting?
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by doakley » 10:03 pm Jan 27 2019

You aren't getting the answers you want because it is highly unlikely your carb settings are preventing starting, especially if it was running prior to your work. Try the starter fluid (ether). If that works, and it cranks ok after the first retry without starter fluid, clean the hell out of everything in the carb, especially the choke and check the jet block for leaks. If that doesn't work, find a loaner cylinder. Personally I've never heard of a sleeve coming loose and would suspect something wrong. YMMV

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by KDXGarage » 10:09 pm Jan 27 2019

If you want to check sleeve alignment, take the exhaust pipe off and look inside.
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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by 96Kdxrider96 » 12:02 am Jan 28 2019

doakley wrote:
10:03 pm Jan 27 2019
You aren't getting the answers you want because it is highly unlikely your carb settings are preventing starting, especially if it was running prior to your work. Try the starter fluid (ether). If that works, and it cranks ok after the first retry without starter fluid, clean the hell out of everything in the carb, especially the choke and check the jet block for leaks. If that doesn't work, find a loaner cylinder. Personally I've never heard of a sleeve coming loose and would suspect something wrong. YMMV
It had a stock reeds cage on it before i rebuilt the top. I put a vforce3 reed cage in it. It has more air flow and the carb is setup for the old stock rings. I dont see it starting on a carb set up for old stock reeds after having brand new vforce3 reeds put on the bike. More air going into the motor means the carb will need adjusted since the air fuel mixture will then be off since its different amounts of air going into the cylinder. Some people say that you need to lean out the carb because a bigger pulse from the more air draws more fuel out of the bowl causing a rich condition and others say it allows more air so it causes a lean condition and needs to be richened. I am having to repeat myself several times in these comments.

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by 96Kdxrider96 » 12:05 am Jan 28 2019

KDXGarage wrote:
10:09 pm Jan 27 2019
If you want to check sleeve alignment, take the exhaust pipe off and look inside.
I had the whole jug off, i alligned it with the ports and secured it with a very small amount of jb weld. My thinking is if the cylinder is ruined and will need replaced if that doesnt hold then whats the use of making the sleeve removable. I could still knock it out because i used a very small amount and it was a somewhat mated surface so its a very thin film of jb weld. I just wanted enough hold to keep it still, not necessarily keep it in there forever

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Re: Vforce3 reeds

Post by KDXGarage » 01:52 am Jan 28 2019

OK, kid gloves off:

" I am having to repeat myself several times in these comments."

...because you can't get it into your thick skull that jetting is not what is causing the KDX not to start.

The sleeve is ABSOLUTELY not supposed to twist. Someone did a POOR job of installing it. Stock cylinders are plated, not sleeved. Someone did that after it was purchased.

If the sleeve is OK, and you are getting proper spark and fuel, then the carb is dirty or the fuel is wrong or way old.
I already asked you how old the fuel was, and you didn't reply.

AGAIN, it's not the jet sizes.
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