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Just purchased a 2001 KDX 200. It has a new uninstalled JD Jet kit. Are they an improvement over the stock jets and needles? I see they cost around $80.

The jets are just regular jets, nothing unique about them.

The needles are what is special. I love my JD needles!

The problem with the late model KDX200's is there is not a jetting chart for them, so unless you live at sea level and ride at 70* F, you have to figure out your jetting for yourself, which isn't the end of the world, but what if you wantt o take a trip and ride at notably different elevation/temperature than where you live? you have to take your best guess and show up and hope its right, if it isn't you'll have to waste an hour or more of your vacation/riding trip jetting your bike jetted right. the *jets* are one thing, not all that hard to get right...

The needle on the other hand is in many ways more important than the jets and there is VERY little info on what needles to run for what elevations and what temperatures, this is where I wish I would have bought a JD jet kit as I assume it has a jetting chart with elevation and temperature on it so you could show up "somewhere you don't normally ride" and have your bike jetted halfway correctly, if not just about spot on.

jackbombay wrote:The problem with the late model KDX200's is there is not a jetting chart for them, so unless you live at sea level and ride at 70* F, you have to figure out your jetting for yourself, which isn't the end of the world, but what if you wantt o take a trip and ride at notably different elevation/temperature than where you live? you have to take your best guess and show up and hope its right, if it isn't you'll have to waste an hour or more of your vacation/riding trip jetting your bike jetted right. the *jets* are one thing, not all that hard to get right...

The needle on the other hand is in many ways more important than the jets and there is VERY little info on what needles to run for what elevations and what temperatures, this is where I wish I would have bought a JD jet kit as I assume it has a jetting chart with elevation and temperature on it so you could show up "somewhere you don't normally ride" and have your bike jetted halfway correctly, if not just about spot on.

Welcome to the wonderful world of carburators.

Even if one lives at sea level and 70 degrees, one still needs to learn how to jet his bike with all of the particular equipment - oil brand/ratio and altitude, humidity and temperature. Once a baseline is firmly established, then and only then can one adjust for changes in temperature humidity and altitude. There are charts out there that show adjustments for elevation and temperature, with 96%, 98%, 100%, 102% and 104%. Correction factor is the term, I think. This is just one example.



Here's something I have never seen in person, but always wondered about for Mikuni:

Jason wrote: Welcome to the wonderful world of carburators.

Yep, I've had 5 carbureted motorcycles in my life, but they were either 4 strokes that are far less sensitive to jetting, or they were KTM which come with a jetting chart in the owners manual.

Jason wrote:There are charts out there that show adjustments for elevation and temperature, with 96%, 98%, 100%, 102% and 104%. Correction factor is the term, I think. This is just one example.

Cute chart, but it's largely useless as it provides no info about needle choice, the pilot and main jet only have significant influence just off idle (pilot jet) and above 3/4 throttle (main jet) so the majority of your riding is "on the needle" so that chart is not applicable to the majority of riding, other than that one massive shortfall, it's a great chart :-P

I'm not intending to bust your balls on this, but I am disappointed that Kawasaki never produced a jetting chart for the late model KDX200, if they did I would not expect it to be spot on, but it would be great to have so you could drive to a notably different elevation and have your bike jetted half way close to correct as opposed to showing up on a guess.

I am going to guess that in the last 12+ years of posts on this site, there has been a mention or two of needles on this site. Read, read, read and make your best guess. I know you are snowed in and won't ride your new bike until after you are at 6,000 feet.

Let's search...

361 hits for CEL
401 for DEK

Yeah, you should be able to read up on it until forever.

Jason wrote: Let's search...

361 hits for CEL
401 for DEK

Yeah, you should be able to read up on it until forever.

Just throw a needle in that everyone uses at low elevation and it'll work great, got it.

Damn guys! You are right CEL DEK search gets me more carb info than I can comprehend.....Guess I'll, "just throw a needle in".

patreilly wrote:Damn guys! You are right CEL DEK search gets me more carb info than I can comprehend.....Guess I'll, "just throw a needle in".

Your bike came with a JD jetting kit so I would start with that. With their needles there wont be a need for the CEL, DEL or anything else in my opinion. The red needle in the 3rd clip runs noticeably cleaner than the CEL or DEL in any clip position on my 220 with a 35AS. I became a believer after dealing with them on my ATC250R. It came with a 34 PE and I contacted them for suggestions in upgrading. James recommended a 38 air striker which I thought would be too big for the mostly low to mid trail riding I do. I ordered it from them which comes with their needles and it's amazing. They set it up with a 45 pilot, blue needle 3rd clip, and a 170 main. Its been two years and I haven't touched it other that putting the air screw to 1 3/4 in the summer and 1 1/2 in the winter. I'm in Florida so we don't have huge temp changes but the thing is damn near fuel injected. Plug chops show I could get some more power out of it but it runs so clean I just leave it alone. Right out of the box excellent.

Once I got my 220 all sorted out I tested the CEL, DEL vs the red, and blue needles and in my case the red is better than the CEL, and the blue better than the DEL. Especially 0-1/2 throttle!! The CEL is good but it doesn't compare to the red.

Those guys are needle nerds to the fullest extent (I say complimentary) and the customer service is excellent either by phone or email. James Deans' willingness to help on this site (that 100 or so page thread in the RB section) and other sites I've read, plus the customer service make it a company I gladly want to support. Check out the reviews of the kit on Rocky Mountain ATVMC. I think guys that say JD jetting is for people who don't know how to jet are guys that haven't tried it. There is clearly a lot of R&D that goes into their triple taper needles.

John_S wrote:

patreilly wrote:Damn guys! You are right CEL DEK search gets me more carb info than I can comprehend.....Guess I'll, "just throw a needle in".

Your bike came with a JD jetting kit so I would start with that. With their needles there wont be a need for the CEL, DEL or anything else in my opinion. The red needle in the 3rd clip runs noticeably cleaner than the CEL or DEL in any clip position on my 220 with a 35AS. I became a believer...

Thanks for the review! Makes me wish I had gone the JD route, I do have my bike running quite well now, but its taken a fair bit of fiddling and money to JetsRus, I haven't spent as much as the cost of a JD kit, but thats assuming my time is worth nothing. Does the JD kit have a temp vs altitude chart?

Jack, if I didn't have the JD kit I would be happy with the CEL, clip 2. The CEL gives me a hit when it comes on the pipe. The difference with the red needle is that it feels a lot stronger idle to 1/4 throttle (even idle to 1/2) so when it comes on the pipe there is no hit, just a strong pull. The blue needle also works but its richer 0-1/4 so with the blue on clip 2 I need a 38 pilot at 1 1/2 out on the air screw, the red needle is clip 3, 42 pilot, 1 1/2 out.

JD instructions do give different altitude and temp settings for the main and needle. Not much mention of the pilot other than air screw setting. In general the red needle is for higher altitudes or hot temps and the blue is for sea level or temps below 50 degrees. You can get either needle to run great with the right pilot jet.

What always confused me was the fact you were suppose to retain the stock (ie "very rich") pilot jet. We know the bikes are rich from the factory. Then you add a custom needle that is richer than the stock needle. How would you not be too rich? Never made sense to me. Has anyone had success with the JD kits on a 200 that could list their jetting specs?

When I switched to the JD needles I didnt have to change any other jetting. For me it was simply a needle swap.

G22inSC wrote:What always confused me was the fact you were suppose to retain the stock (ie "very rich") pilot jet. We know the bikes are rich from the factory. Then you add a custom needle that is richer than the stock needle. How would you not be too rich? Never made sense to me. Has anyone had success with the JD kits on a 200 that could list their jetting specs?

I've spent a year trying to get a down draft carb to work on a side draft head, there's alot more to needles than just diameter. The tip shape can make a huge difference in pilot jet requirements. I'd love to see a jd needle next to a stock one...

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Icecold4x4, here is a picture of the needles. Of course its a lot different looking at them in person without the shadows. The JD blue is on the left, stock 220 in the middle, and a CEL on the right. The most obvious thing is the distance of the top section (straight section?) to the first ridge is the same on the blue and 220 and quite a bit longer on the CEL. The blue in person looks almost straight at the bottom and then tapers up about near that second hole.

Ya if you notice up near the top of the needle it's as fat as the stock needle one reason why the pilots don't need to be changed, and being that fat is going to have a major effect on how the fuel flow starts and stops when at sub 20 percent throttle.

Also the needle tip looks to be shorter and a bit more angled. But that could just be lighting and reflections in the picture.

Looks like quite a few subtle differences, amazing what a few thou. of an inch in the right places can do lol.

Really neat. Thanks for sharing, guess I need to put one of his kits on the wishlist.

Too bad the kdx doesn't use the round keihin style jets lol I've got those from 135 to 200 all the way.

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You're right the tip is more angled. The CEL straight section is 4mm longer than the other two needles. I'm not sure the exact affect of that but 4mm is a big number when you're talking about needles. It runs good with the CEL but had a more motocross type hit which I wasn't looking for. The DEK (which came with the air striker) and the DEL were too mellow. The JD needles deliver the power more like a 4 stroke. No drama, just really strong wherever you are in the rpm or throttle range.

John_S wrote:You're right the tip is more angled. The CEL straight section is 4mm longer than the other two needles. I'm not sure the exact affect of that but 4mm is a big number when you're talking about needles. It runs good with the CEL but had a more motocross type hit which I wasn't looking for. The DEK (which came with the air striker) and the DEL were too mellow.

I find jetting and needles fascinating, and it's amazing how often things that common sense say shouldn't work do. And truly amazing when you finally figure out exactly how complex some of the relationships are that make the simple carb work...

Sorry for the thread jack.

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IceCold4x4 wrote:I'd love to see a jd needle next to a stock one...

Ask and you shall receive. Sorry it doesn't show the DEL as that is currently in the bike. A larger version of this pic is located in my gallery under the Miscellaneous KDX folder. Link below in the signature line.