97-04 KX500 / 96-97 KX125/250 swap - height & valving, vs KLX300R

Questions and comments about converting to beefier forks..
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97-04 KX500 / 96-97 KX125/250 swap - height & valving, vs KLX300R

Post by Chuck78 »

I'm looking at upgrading forks on my 99 KDX220. Springs are .35kg/mm stockers. They are a slight bit too soft for me at a little over 150lbs w/o gear.

I was excited to find that the KLX300 forks+triples were a direct bolt on. Some on here slag them and say that it's not any upgrade as they are the same generation of cartridges and same tube size at 43mm, but they are just inverted (mostly cosmetic bling as they were saying)
Slick Nick pointed out that they were a very nice and noticeable improvement to his KDX ride quality, as they are stiffer (less flex) by the nature of inverted fork design, & the ride quality/damping was better, plus you eliminate the underhang of the stock fork sliders.
Also I noted that they come with .38kg/mm. He said they were still too soft but I don't know his weight or preferred riding terrain/style.
I'm certain I could get a nice set of these for $200-300 + seals/bushings rebuild kit.


Talking to Matt at Racetech a while back, he recommended .38kg/mm fork springs for my weight for woods riding.
The new revised Racetech online calculator tells me for B class level woods rider my weight, about .39kg/mm.



I started looking into the KX fork swaps again, came up with either a 96-97 KX125 setup for $315 total after sending ebay KX triple & ebay KDX triple to Ron Black for stem swap modifications and custom bushing.
Or I dug up a KX500 part-out that has the direct KDX bolt on triple but the guy won't budge off $400 (+$25 for new plastic gaurds).

Add to that the $75 for a KX wheel and axle setup to fit either KX fork. KLX can use the KDX wheel & axle.

Both KX500 & 125 use the same upper slider tubes and have the same 12.2" travel. Is the 125 fork a slightly shorter ride height? I think I read that the lower chrome stanchion tubes on the 125 are different. Both have 5/8"+ more travel than the KDX220R, but I have no extended fork measurements to go off of.
I also read some heresay discussions of people saying the KX500 fork needs lowered about 25mm or 7/8" to attain the KDX ride height (UPDATE - in reality it's around 1-7/16" longer as measured bottom of lower bearing to center of axle, but lowering 7/8" internally PLUS sliding triples down on fork tubes 1/2" will do it, especially if you have taller bar risers or fat bar adapters)


I'm wondering on opinions for these three routes, and if there is an advantage of piecing together a KX125 setup for cheaper due to ride height or better valving for a 227lb kdx doing woods riding. I know I can alter the valving shim stack on either, but was looking for any other advantages of going one way or another.

Racetech says I want .39kg springs. 96-97 KX125 come with the softest of all 96-01's at .38kg/mm. Perfect for extra traction in the woods.
97-04 KX500 come with .40kg/mm springs, slightly more firm but would be better at hitting small jumps! Traction is more important though and I'm sure .38kg will catch a little more air off small jumps easier than the weak .35kg stockers.

I'm pretty sold on the comp+rebound adjustability of going with the KX forks, plus 46mm potentially being stronger and able to withstand harder crashes.

Should I be looking at 02/03/04 KX125 48mm forks as well??? I'm guessing the springs will be too stiff for me (add $100...)

Thanks for reading this far. By the way this is a fun woods bike, I'm no racer, but I do ride pretty aggressively at times. Hardpack clay / rocky terrain mostly & some loamy stuff now and then. Always seeking out the tighter more technical riding but nothing too extremely super technical *yet*. UPDATE - been riding my 2nd KDX220R that came with KLX300R forks, it does very well on the super gnarly rocky stuff I've been leaning towards in the past 2 years 2020-2022. Now looking to swap those onto the '99 220 that I bought the KX500 forks for, and run the 500 forks with 125 springs on my purple/green 97 KDX220R as I can get purple UFO fork protector plastics from the UK for the 500 forks, and I wrecked the NLA purple KLX600R purple fork protectors that came on it... Soft valving for woods is where it's at, my wife's 2007 KTM 200 XC-W suspension beats me up on the gnarly rocky Southeastern Kentucky terrain, the KLX fork and KDX shock are much preferred by me... Now to get the valving and ride height proper on these KX500 forks!
Last edited by Chuck78 on 10:37 pm Jun 08 2023, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by KDXGarage »

YOU just need to decide if the extra cost and extra hassle is worth it for the KX front end.

KX125 is not going to be less travel. Yes, KX forks are about an inch longer.

KX valving is MX valving. You want "I don't race, but think I am fast in the woods" valving, which is KDX or KLX valving. :grin:

Please don't look at spring rates for B class. You've never even seen a flag fall. :grin:

Correct spring rate is correct spring rate. If its the correct rate and bottoming out too much, check oil/air level and valving.
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KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

Thanks again for the reply Jason, you seem to pop up in all of my first posts on here. Your feedback is appreciated.

I realized that both the KX 125 and 500 both had 12.2" travel but have different lowers as I had read. So you're saying the 500 97-04 & 125 96-01 (both of same generation & sharing many parts) are nearly the same fork lengths?
If both need revalved, then it just comes down to whether I want to get better woods riding springs and have to hassle with the stem swaps etc and spend less @ $390, or if I want to spend $475 & get the whole bolt on setup from one guy aside from ebaying a KX wheel.


Still considering the KLX300 as it will be an improvement and an easy quick bolt on for $250-$315. BUT... the 500 fork route would be pretty ultimate.

So...
I'm wondering if the .40kg springs in the KX will be noticeable too harsh on the bumpy stuff? I'm probably splitting hairs here but trying to make a very well thought out decision on the greater expenditure.

With the better cartridges and valving experimentation on the KX500 forks, will that make the .40kg sprung KX500 forks more plush than stock KDX220 fork valving with too soft of (stock) springs? I'm going to guess yes it will still be a better ride quality... help? ??



I tried searching the forum internally and through Google to find info on what has worked for other 500 fork swaps in terms of revalving, & the only detailed answer I could find was a guy that used some Yamaha cartridges in his KX500 forks on his KDX...

Thanks everyone,

Chuck
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

Jason wrote:
Please don't look at spring rates for B class. You've never even seen a flag fall. :grin:

Correct spring rate is correct spring rate. If its the correct rate and bottoming out too much, check oil/air level and valving.
That was the default setting on the racetech calculator, & I believe also called it Novice, so it seemed like a reasonable input option for my goals. Until you interjected to set me straight!
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KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

Okay my bad... rookie oversight...
The Novice setting was C class. B class says intermediate on the RT calculator... yes I've never watched a flag drop while participating in a race event other than lots of spectating...

So from the calculator, it seems as if the longer travel KX forks with same selections for trail/enduro and C/Novice or beginner, well they call for slightly stiffer springs still than the KDX/KLX with the same inputs. I selected KX & KLX etc but adjusted my body weight input slightly to reflect those bikes stock being slightly heavier than my KDX currently is, to simulate running those forks on the KDX.

So for the KX500 forks for beginner enduro/trail it tells me .39kg springs. For C/Novice it tells me .40kg.

Exact same inputs but no longer knocking 5-13 lbs off my body weight to reflect different weights of the bikes selected to get those forks selected, the KDX220R forks/bike call for .36kg beginner and .37kg for C/Novice.

KLX forks input gives me .38kg beginner and .40kg C/Novice even after knocking 13lbs or so off of my body weight (KDX minus the hefty stock muffler and pipe vs the 233lb KLX 4 stroker).

.35kg was noticeably too soft for me, and I think I'll be very happy with .38kg, but not sure about the KX500 inputs giving me .39kg beginner / .40kg c/novice. I'm thinking it must be due to the longer travel since I subtracted the slight bike weight differences off of my body weight...

I'm sorry I'm rambling on and on here. Trial and error I suppose will work unless someone can chime in on spring rates.


Thanks KDX community,

Chuck in Ohio
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KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

From the KX forum, doesn't seem all accurate with the forks being over 3" longer (?), but perhaps a slight bit of useful info here:
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KDX 220 suspension swap to kx500 forks
« on: March 07, 2012, 06:46:02 AM »
I recently purchased kdx 220 2002. loved the motor hatted the front end(flexed,soft,fork hung down below axial).
So doing some reading here and there i found out a kx 500 triple tree would bolt up with no mods. Be as it may an fellow club member had a entire front end forks,tree,wheel, brakes,all other controls fit.Bolted it up went for a ride,raised the forks all the way up trying to get the geometery balance,the forks are 3.25 in longer,we definitly had somthing here! couldan't quight get the balance i needed but strait line was great pushed alot in the turns.Then called (WER) Drew Smith after our discusions(more than one call)we lowered the forks 2in. revalved,and he had new springs made shorter using the stock spring rate kx500 also at the same time the rear shock was revalved. Well after 100 ml. or so this realy worked well a great eastern woods wepon.
Some other notes: only lost 1 in of travel over the stock forks 9.5 now was 10.25 2002 kx500 forks 46mm are bump stop forks a the bottom of the fork theres a 1.5 in rubber stop. Being an A enduro east coast rider have only bottomed it once hitting a log hit no problems.Great in tight woods,woops. Great set up thanks to WER & Staff."


So it seems as if I can adjust back to KDX ride height mostly with just dropping the triples on the forks??? I am prepared to lower them slightly internally with topout spacers if needed however. The travel and length differences there seem inaccurate

EDIT: I have a set of 97-04 KX500 forks in my possession now, and they measure only approximately 1-3/8" longer from the bottom of the lower triple clamp bearing down to the center of the axle, vs my '99 KDX220R with the front wheel in the air. I suppose the weight of the KDX wheel and brake could have been compressing the top out spring slightly (26-15/16" measurement with wheel hanging), but I'd say maximum difference in height if that were the case would be around 1-1/2" or so, NOT the 3.25" this guy is stating. I have no idea where he got that from unless these KX500 forks were already lowered. Most will say they are only 1" longer, I found closer to 1.5" longer, so this guy saying 3.25" longer threw up a big red flag for me.
Last edited by Chuck78 on 01:24 pm Aug 11 2022, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by doakley »

You are over-thinking the spring rates. I doubt you will tell a difference between .39 and .40.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by jjavaman »

When I got my forks rebuilt I was going to get stiffer springs as per the race tech calculator, I mean all the tests say that the springs are to soft. My suspension guy refused to get them saying I would hate him and bad mouth his shop. He was right, I did the shim stack mod and am very happy with my stock forks.
I don't think I have bottomed them yet!
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by doakley »

You will probably be surprised how much difference the shim stack mod makes in initial response. The roots and rocks don't kick the front end off track nearly as much. Of course if you just want to look more "modern" then any set of USD forks will work.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by KDXGarage »

You're welcome.

If I were you, I would just look into the KLX forks. I am not sure on the brake cable and caliper. They have .38 springs stock, which would be about right for you, you get to keep the stock wheel instead of buying a new wheel, no stem swap, no internal travel limiting, woods valving already, no pulling the forks up.
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KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

Well I bought the KX500 forks... I kept telling myself I'd have double into the bike what I could sell it for, but this thing brings me great joys... the fact that they may be slightly stronger than the klx300 forks plus the external damping & more modern cartridge design as well.

For the KX valving, I can't find much info on here about it, but I do notice on the RaceTech page on the KX500 selection info, there's a link for valving info. Maybe on there I'd be able to figure out the valving? From what I read on thumpertalk, I'd want to take the base valve stack and take out all but 4 of the large same sized shim spring washers???

I hope .40 isn't too much spring for my 150lb self + gear weight.

On the investment, I'll keep the stockers in case I ever sell the bike, I'd swap the forks back off. I'd love to have an 86-88 air cooled KDX200 but the 95+ have so much going for em that I can overlook the modern water cooled look and more modern stylings. I'm a complete nutjob for classic vintage stuff...

My dream bike would be an 86-88 with 97 KX500 forks, RaceTech guts in rear shock, pipe and wiseco piston, maybe some other engine tweaks via Ron Black head work (?) and / or Eric Gorr porting... and early 80's round headlight from an early KDX/KX.


PE175 Suzuki 80-81 or full floater 82-84 is right up there next for dream trail rigs. Love the old air cooled monsters and trying to tweak em as much as I can to make them ride as good as one could ever expect an antique to go... no inverted forks on the old Zuk's tho just conventional + RaceTech guts. Too old to deck out in fancy modern looking clothes...

KX500 woods valving tips????
Last edited by Chuck78 on 07:56 pm Aug 23 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by KDXGarage »

Congrats on your purchase. Removing shims is going to be the answer, as there are too many for what you are wanting to do. You will need high speed and low speed compression changes.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

After searching eBay a lot for some KX wheels, I believe 93 or 94 and up on the KX 125 and 250 work with these forks, I noticed many very damaged rims, including many of them being split at the welded seam.
I thought I found a good one, although the seller shop were total schmucks, the description was about 2,000 words about their shops policies, and the only descriptors of the wheel said "a picture is worth 1000 words"
The wheels looks perfect in the picture, but when I open up the package when it arrived, guess what? Split at the seam on both sides! These KX D.I.D. rims are a model that I had never seen before, other than on this generation of KX. No stepped profile, just a big u-shaped rim profile.
Since I got this thing so cheap and don't want to hassle shipping it back, I said screw it, and started shopping for D.I.D. Dirt Star or Excel Takasago rims. I almost considered the Excel a60, as it is touted to be the absolute strongest, but they only come in black, which I think will look really awesome, but I know will scratch and show scratches very easily and look like trash in no time. Also I believe they require slightly shorter spoke length, as the profile is slightly deeper.

Anyhow, I just wanted to put a plug out there that this style of D.I.D. rim on the KX wheels seems to be inherently problematic.

I ended up getting a brand new take off Excel takasago rim for $65 shipped. Brand new otherwise would have cost around $100 for the Excel minimum, or 108 for the D.I.D. dirt star
Last edited by Chuck78 on 04:29 pm Sep 02 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

So Jason, when I tear down the shock this winter and put your rebuild kit in it, is the general consensus that the shock valving is pretty good stock & generally spot-on? Or do people typically do some shim stack swapping? Is a RaceTech gold valve a recommended swap/upgrade? With too stiff of a spring, it's hard for me to get any feel for how the compression damping is.

I definitely need to put a proper spring on the rear shock.
Last edited by Chuck78 on 04:30 pm Sep 02 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by KDXGarage »

The stock valving is not too bad. You can try to lighten it up a touch. I don't know that a Gold Valve is a requirement, as it's not like the stock valving is way off.

What is your weigh wit hall gear on? You might need only one step softer. Stock should not be too far off.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

150lbs + gear, I'll weigh myself with gear tomorrow before we head out.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by KDXGarage »

What are your sag numbers?
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

Ya know I feel like my sag is more than adequate but it feels like a rising rate, as the rear gets slightly on the harsh side of things on longer travel moments, whereas the front never ever ever seems harsh although once I get the KX forks valved properly, I'm sure it will make the small trail bumps seem way smoother.
I'm at about 3.5" rear sag (3" measured from bike sitting on its own weight, 1/2" extra if I top out the rear end from lifting the weight off the bike), which seems PLENTY to me with my amateur-ish aptitude. But longer travel I get a lot of more harsh feedback. I think I've only bottomed the rear out once ever on a big big hit, the harshness I speak of is not me not realizing I'm bottoming.
Last edited by Chuck78 on 05:36 pm Sep 02 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by KDXGarage »

I would suggest 100 mm sag, then reevaluate the ride.
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Re: KX125 or kx500 swap - heights & valving? vs KLX300 swap

Post by Chuck78 »

Thanks for the tip. 3.5" from topped out / bike unweighted is just a hair under 90mm, so I'm about 10mm short on a good baseline sag. I'm about to change the oil, so I'll go ahead and knock back the preload a little but as well. I'm gonna need all the traction I can get tomorrow after all the hurricane remnants rain & riding with 2 or 3 racers...

Thanks again,

Chuck
Last edited by Chuck78 on 01:54 pm Aug 21 2022, edited 10 times in total.
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
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'77 Suzuki GS750-844cc, '77 GS400/489cc & '77 GS550/740cc projects
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'88 Suzuki Samurai TDI/Toyota swaps
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