Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Questions and comments about converting to beefier forks..
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Bogie83
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by Bogie83 »

Lol well I appreciate the info you supplied!
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by VTMTcowboy »

Chuck78 wrote: 10:38 am Aug 28 2022
SS109 wrote: 06:47 pm Aug 27 2022 The shock he built for me considerably raised the height of my KDX which, of course, works well with the 47mm twin chamber Showa forks. I did not ask him to make it the exact same length as the stock KDX shock but he might have done some parts swapping internally to get them closer to the same length. That said, I have no clue what he actually did inside.
SS109, assuming the KDX has an average linkage leverage ratio of 3:1 (I've read this is fairly standard for a lot of bikes???), & the fact that he used a shorter spring perch, Donnie must've lowered that shock some internally or used a shorter shaft if the DRZ400 shaft is shorter, as otherwise I'd think the shock would give the KDX CONSIDERABLE ride height increase to the tune of nearly 2"-3"...Being 1" longer shock length and using the same length clevis as the stock RM shock. That's why I think he used the shorter DRZ400 spring cup/perch/collar to compensate and use the stock length RM spring still despite the shock being likely internally shortened a bit.
But also, your shock is definitely a fair bit longer than the stock KDX from reading your past accounts, as I do remember you saying that you had to compress the shock 1/4" just to get it to install on the KDX.
I just threw my '99 220 with stock shock & stock 112.5 links up on a stand to get it at full droop to study the linkage.
Based on the fact that your '01-'06 RM125 shock after custom rebuild was still 1/4" too long, and looking at my linkage vs frame, tells me that your shock must still be fairly close to stock RM length, as a noticeably longer shock would in fact appear to push the rocker linkage into the frame crossmember that it mounts to, the KDX's frame would be the limiting factor on shock fully extended length.

I measured approximately 5-1/4" of exposed shaft on the RM125 2003 shock, versus just a hair over 5" on the KDX shock. I'm guessing that neither of them use the full shaft travel range at least I hope! Wouldn't hurt to do a mockup with a spring removed or just use 2 ratchet straps to fully crank down the KDX rear suspension to test this out before making any internal shock changes. If 3:1 leverage ratio is in the approximate range of the KDX, lowering the RM 125 Showa internally 5/8" or 7/8" should be no issue. But as they say, "to measure is to know."


I've actually been meaning to mark the shock shaft and use a ratchet strap to compress the rear suspension, with a tape measure in hand, and measure shock travel vs rear wheel travel, to give myself a rough approximation of the actual rear wheel/swingarm vs shock travel leverage ratio, for making rough guesstimated calculations on suspension alterations.

Honestly I'd really consider just leaving the shock a decent bit longer but running a lot more than the standard 100mm-110mm of rider sag when seated, just to get the geometry in the realm of where it needs to be to match a fork that's set up at 5/8" or 7/8" taller than stock and maintain somewhat proper steering caster angle. I'm thinking to lower the shock 5/8" internally perhaps, run a shorter (or custom) spring seat/perch/collar, and just back the preload off to achieve desired rear ride height.

I'm quite pleased with the revalved KLX300R fork / stock rear shock with 100mm sag set + low psi Tubliss, but I just can't leave any of my toys alone when there's other cool and significant improvements that can be made...especially when they will be of substantial benefit when riding the nasty gnarly terrain that I gravitate towards...

BuffaloMtnDevilAnseTrail97-August_2021.jpg

BuffaloMtnDevilAnseTrail177-August_2021.jpg
Hey Chuck, where'd you get those purple fork guards? Great looking bike by the way!
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by Chuck78 »

VTMTcowboy wrote: 11:45 am Sep 09 2022
Chuck78 wrote: 10:38 am Aug 28 2022
BuffaloMtnDevilAnseTrail97-August_2021.jpg

BuffaloMtnDevilAnseTrail177-August_2021.jpg
Hey Chuck, where'd you get those purple fork guards? Great looking bike by the way!

NLA! I need another as I cracked one, and the Kawasaki decal on the one side is holding it together!
It's a 1 or 2 year only KLX650R off road model fork guard. On KLX300R forks.
UFO makes purple fork guards to fit the 97-04 KX500 forks, same forks as 96-97 KX125/KX250, and I believe the interchange goes to other fork models in the same models in adjacent years as well, but I had to get them from a guy in the UK off ebay. I have some KX500 forks to swap on this bike, although these KLX300R forks revalved work AWESOME... I'm looking for a slight upgrade and 1/2" or 5/8" taller ride height vs stock is a welcome thing for more ground clearance for the gnarly terrain I like to seek out, although the open chamber forks with mid valves are really only an upgrade for higher speed riding while still being tuneable for the woods, the extra 3mm tube diameter, and external adjustability. I'm sold on the Showa Twin Chambers (96+ Suzuki RM, 2006+ KX 4T) now as being the best along with YZ125/250 KYB S.S.S. forks 2006+. But... being able to fit purple fork guards is crucial!

Image

I actually landed my bike on it's side on a huge bedrock step on the Red Fox trail at Wayne National Forest this past weekend, with the right side purple shroud face down on the rock... I was sweating bullets picking it up to see if I hurt my beloved purple shrouds and tank! Slight scuffing but okay enough! Made me think about swapping on other plastics when I want to hit the gnarly rocky stuff...
I actually was seeking out the hardest rockiest lines in the entire forest, as I was longing to be back at Redbird Crest KY or Buffalo Mountain WV trails working my way through the gnarly rocky trails at those spots, but stuck in Ohio and not going to Wellsville Ohio for a few weeks (super gnarly rocky terrain there, the hardest in the East).

The '99 KDX220R will be getting the Showa Twin Chambers, but I'm thinking of doing purple shroud graphics just like this one anyways, and black Clarke Tank, black 1990's KX front and rear fenders, and purple seat again. I just tore the purple seat on the last Wayne National Forest ride, but it was aftermarket. I'll be ordering a pair of OEM replica purple seat covers and fender bags shortly.

Hoping to plan a trip to the gnarly lawless Wellsville Ohio trails in 2 weekends. Pros like Quinn Wentzel and other top riders train there. Check this out at 5:40 and especially 8:40... need taller and very compliant suspension for this stuff lol... this is more gnarly than anything else we'd ride, very impressive riding by these guys:


'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by Chuck78 »

VTMTcowboy wrote: 11:45 am Sep 09 2022
BuffaloMtnDevilAnseTrail97-August_2021.jpg

BuffaloMtnDevilAnseTrail177-August_2021.jpg

Hey Chuck, where'd you get those purple fork guards? Great looking bike by the way!
Here ya go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265885704196
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
'77 Suzuki PE250 & '83 Suzuki PE175 Full Floater - restomod projects
'77 Suzuki GS750-844cc, '77 GS400/489cc & '77 GS550/740cc projects
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by KDXGarage »

nice set in that link!
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by VTMTcowboy »

Thanks Chuck! So much for saying I needed to save money... Haha.
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by Chuck78 »

Well.... I revisited some of my fork swap info compiled for my vintage Suzuki street bikes...
I had a suspicion that turned out to be correct!

The RM Showa aluminum steering stems looked almost identical to this GSXR stem that I have here from some 1990s/2000's forks. Same as a Hayabusa steering stem. I was looking into a good steering stem to swap into a set of VMAX 1200 triples that will fit a Suzuki GS frame... VStrom DL1000 ran 43mm fork tubes as I desired for the GS750 & GS1000... Slightly less offset then a vintage 19" front wheeled street bike (I'm on 18's now) would typically have, but this seemed to be a bolt-on deal better than all the triples that came with the modern forks that I was looking at from bikes that primarily ran 17" sport bike wheels. One guy did it but said a spacer was required as the steering stem was longer. My GSXR stem looks identical and was the right size for the GS frames, not too long at all...



The deets:
$2.98 + shipping & I now have in my hands a non ABS model (older) V-Strom DL1000 43mm street bike lower triple clamp with an aluminum steering stem similar in appearance and identical and bearing size to the RM Showa stems and should be a DIRECT SWAP ONTO A KDX FRAME, appearing to be the exact length needed for the KDX frame!
...and as a bonus, the GSXR stem that I have (or the RM stem with the press fit area turned down shorter) will swap right into the V-Strom triple to work on my GS750 or GS1000 better for Bandit 1200/R6/GSXR1100K/RF900R fork tubes!
The earlier aluminum-stem version DL1000 V-Strom lower triples seem prevalent and cheap on ebay, so I think this is definitely the best answer to swap a Suzuki RM triple clamp set onto a KDX, by getting a DL1000 lower triple as a donor for the stem only, to transplant into the RM lower triple clamp.


The KDX220 etc has around a 7-5/8" height from the bottom of the lower stem bearing seal up to the top of the upper bearing seal.
The "conversion bearing" size required will be 30mm x 47mm x 12mm, KDX frame upper is the height to fit up to a 15mm tall bearing.
The early (non-ABS, aluminum stem) DL1000 has a dimension of just over 7.5" between the bottom of the lower bearing press fit area and the top of the upper bearing seat area versus 7.625" on KDX stem/frame So this bearing that is 3 mm shorter height than the stock KDX bearing, will fit fully on the bearing seat area of the upper stem right up to the very top of the bearing area fit, & will fit the KDX frame perfectly with a 3mm tall x 30mm i.d. upper bearing spacer between the bearing and the dust cap seal, with the lock nut(s) above that.
The V-Strom I believe uses two thinner lock nuts with a toothed lock washer, instead of just one like the RM & KDX use. You can run either the double or the single RM lock nut. This works out pretty ideally because of the frame being taller, you lose some of the fork travel range on the non-inverted conventional fork chrome tubes and cannot slide the forks up in the triples ANY.
This setup will put both triple clamps closer to the frame which is definitely beneficial so that you don't have to push the fork tubes all the way down so the hex on the top cap is flush with the upper triple, just to get the full travel range back.
This will actually work out pretty perfectly based on where these RM 49mm conventional forks have witness marks on the chrome tubes where the triples were clamped for the RM's. The "12.2 inch" advertised travel is typical, the RM shows that fully extended with the fork sitting on the bench, there's about 11.6" real world travel based on examining the chrome in the entire seal travel range versus the 10 mm between the bottom of the upper triple and the marks, where I can see the seal stopped polishing the chrome on fork bottoming and normal travel. Their 12.2" of travel is the full range WITH the top out springs COMPLETELY COMPRESSED, which almost never happens in reality. Same as most bikes' advertised travel...
Last edited by Chuck78 on 04:19 pm Nov 20 2022, edited 1 time in total.
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
'77 Suzuki PE250 & '83 Suzuki PE175 Full Floater - restomod projects
'77 Suzuki GS750-844cc, '77 GS400/489cc & '77 GS550/740cc projects
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by Chuck78 »

These 97-98 RM Showa conventionals make the bike 5/8"+ taller than a stock KDX, which is a good thing for me even though I'm not particularly tall at 5'10", as I like plush suspension and I USE my Hyde Racing skid plate often - I need extra clearance over all the massive boulders in Southern Kentucky and Southern West Virginia :supz: . Add a taller more adjustable Showa 50mm piggyback '01-'08 RM125 shock also + KLX250 suspension dog bone links at 117mm vs KDX 112.5mm to balance out the rear ride height (effectively the KLX dogbones/links are lowering links when installed on the KDX, but the RM shocks are taller by 1" which is amplified by the leverage ratio of the linkage.

If taller is not okay with you and you don't want to internally lower and reduce travel on the forks, then you want the 1996 Showa RM conventionals which are a bit shorter at the cost of a bit more underhang, or you want the 1999+ Showa RM inverted forks, as you can slide the inverted forks up in the triples without affecting the fork travel range, until the point at which the tire is going to bottom out on the fender.


One other discovery that I made, the 2001-2008 RM125 Showa 47mm Twin Chamber forks *may* also potentially fit directly into Honda CRF250X etc triple clamps without a stem swap, for swapping onto the KDX. CRF250X, R, & CRF450X/R also use Showa 47mm twin chamber forks... I'm just assuming the clamping areas will be the same, I have not confirmed. The CRF & CR steering stems are taller than the RM stems... I haven't verified measurements, but I think a a 2001-2008 RM125 47mm Showa twin chamber fork in these triple clamps, if it all fits right, could perhaps be one of the most ultimate setups if fitment did all work out, so that you wouldn't have to do a stem swap even. Although as a comparison just for reference, looking at the 2005+ Yamaha YZ's KYB S.S.S. forks, even with the same diameter chrome tubes, the aluminum outers / uppers had different upper clamping diameters 2-stroke versus 4-stroke for some strange reason. If the 47 mm RM versus CRF twin chamber forks have the same clamping diameters and the slightly taller stem was the right height, then this would be a truly bolt-on swap with no stem swapping knurling pressing or bushing machining needed.

A few years of the 47mm RM Twin Chamber inverted forks actually use an inner chamber spring that is lighter than the CRF250X woods bikes, which means that with some revalving softer for woods and springing the main spring for your weight, or if you are 165lbs-180lbs or so already, the RM125 forks could pretty much be the perfect woods fork with just a revalving and no spring changes. Some models use a very stiff inner chamber spring which means the initial suspension travel is going to take more force to initiate travel. RaceTech and Cannon Racecraft both sell several different twin chamber inner chamber springs which are all lighter and are necessary for woods riding unless you already have something between 1kg - 1.2kg or 1.5kg (CRF###X models) that's conducive to a more plush suspension with a closed chamber fork, but a bit more prone to slight cavitation doing high speed whoops and other high speed riding (still far less prone to cavitation on high speed riding than an open chamber woods fork).


The one thing that I'm learning though especially after peeling some of the carbon fiber wraps off of the fork tubes of these RM Showas, is that the 7000 series aluminum on all Showa forks seems to literally disintegrate when exposed to corrosive substances like salt, if the anodizing is damaged and missing in places.
I believe it's referred to something along the lines of integranular degradation? I guess this is really common on Showa forks when the anodizing gets damaged and salt or other corrosive contaminants get to the aluminum. The aluminum outers literally appear as if they are rotting apart in layers.
You really have to keep on top of it as it will spread if you don't completely sand / grind / dig it out and coat the metal.

My adamant quest to run some of these RM125/250 49mm Showa conventional / right side up twin chambers is turning into a really expensive one as I keep buying more forks only to find out they're beat to heck and have defects in the chrome tubes... 4 pairs of forks now that all allegedly had good chrome, and I might potentially have one moderately usable tube out of 10 total, and a lot of beat up worn aluminum outer tubes. All 1998 models, age didn't do them well 24 years later... Online sellers can either be flat out liars, or just incredibly ignorant about condition of mechanical parts and what to look for, including major eBay accounts specializing in bike dismantling...
One other seller on eBay has a set with some fairly rough looking worn lowers but probably do actually have good chrome but for $340 some dollars with severe rubbing and wear from the brake hose routing on these things that is a problem always.

Surprisingly you can still get these forks from Suzuki if you want to drop $2,600! A lot of the parts are available internationally still even if they don't show up as available in the USA via Partzilla. RevZilla seems to show more available than Partzilla, although RevZilla is not usually where I go for OEM parts. CMS NL is the spot...half the stuff comes from Japan anyway when you order it from Partzilla. May as well just get it through the Consolidated Motorcycle Services Netherlands website...
Last edited by Chuck78 on 04:31 pm Nov 20 2022, edited 1 time in total.
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
'77 Suzuki PE250 & '83 Suzuki PE175 Full Floater - restomod projects
'77 Suzuki GS750-844cc, '77 GS400/489cc & '77 GS550/740cc projects
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'88 Suzuki Samurai TDI/Toyota swaps
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by KDXGarage »

Thank you for all the info. It sounds like a tough search for quality parts.
Thank you for participating on kdxrider.net. :bravo:
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by Chuck78 »

@SS109
Browsing a lot of magazine reviews/tests/write-ups on the RM125, I've found a lot of interesting nuances to the Showa suspensions 2001-2008.
Apparently 2005+ shocks got a larger shaft for the sole purpose of passing more oil more easily through the shaft on the biggest of hits. 2005 was also apparently some major internal changes in the fork? I read another person in a forum saying that their tuner said that if they wanted to race an RM144 seriously that they needed the "updated" 2005 - 2008 forks for some reason.

What year are you running on the fork and shock? I'm not sure if it's all down to just valving/factory spring rates changing throughout the years aside from a shock shaft diameter, or what?
I did read reviewers in the articles saying that 2005 was too soft for their motocross tastes, other people saying it was the best smoothest suspension they've ever ridden, and reviewers stating that in 2006 they put a stiffer spring and firmed up the valving a slight bit to make things near perfect on a (goomed mx) track.

I also read I believe it was 2002 they had softer springs and firmer valving, and 2003 apparently was considered a big improvement going with firmer springs and more plush valving. Very interesting to know, although valving shims & DIY shim shuffling is far cheaper than buying another set of springs...
I'm just wondering if anyone knew of any major internal parts differences in the 05-08 vs prior aside from valving configurations and spring rates?
I seem to recall someone mentioning their suspension shop guy said to go with 2004+ Showa Twin Chambers as they were the best (2004 he said, although from these other accounts, 2005 was when the RM125 got the improved 47mm Twin Chambers?).







I'm seriously considering a winter 2023-2024 project of building an Eric Gorr low/mid porting 93 octane head 98/01-08 "RM144" or 94-98 (purple plastics compatible years!) "KX144" woods bike with 18" wheel, skid plate, oversized tank, lighting coil etc to have something almost 30lbs lighter than my KDX220R which can be a slight chore to pick up nonstop on the nastiest Eastern woods singletraracks on the slick days and in the hottest humid peak summer days...
Trying to get my brother back into riding and enticing him with the prospect of doing an Eric Gorr 144 kit for his 2000 CR125R is what sent me down this rabbit hole the past several days, he struggled hard riding with us in the tighter woods sections 6+ years ago on it, & the terrain we ride has gotten exponentially more challenging since then as our skills/thrill-seeking has evolved...
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
'77 Suzuki PE250 & '83 Suzuki PE175 Full Floater - restomod projects
'77 Suzuki GS750-844cc, '77 GS400/489cc & '77 GS550/740cc projects
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by Chuck78 »

Ooohhh... I just recalled one tip I'd read in the RM125 test/review articles - the earlier 2001-2008 versions had a 24.5mm offset in the triple clamps, and I believe around 2003 or 2004, this changed to a 22.5mm offset for more steering trail - equalling better high speed stability...
The 24.5mm triples offering more offset will make the bike steer a bit twitchier / faster in the tight woods by reducing the steering trail spec, and also give you a tighter turning radius especially considering the KDX frame was designed for 43mm tubes/triples, not 54mm or so inverted outers on the upper triples, so more steering angle before the triples/fork tube uppers hit the tank/frame...

@SS109 I now see you're using the 47mm inverted Showa Twin Chambers from an '04 or '06 KX250F... NOT an RM125 set...
I like the idea of the RM125 versions as they're off of a lightweight 2-stroke and more appropriately valved / sprung for a 225-230lb KDX200/220, although I thought I recalled you saying you were running the stock .40kg fork springs, also same rate as in the lighter sprung RM125's 1996+...
'97 KDX220R - purple/green! - KLX forks, Lectron, FMF, Tubliss
'99 KDX220R project - '98/'01 RM125 suspension, Titanium hardware, Lectron Billetron Pro, Tubliss
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Re: Full Showa USD fork/RM125 shock conversion

Post by SS109 »

Chuck78 wrote: 12:22 pm Nov 27 2022 What year are you running on the fork and shock? I'm not sure if it's all down to just valving/factory spring rates changing throughout the years aside from a shock shaft diameter, or what?
My forks are from an '06 Kawasaki KX250F and the shock was "built" from parts to bolt in to any '01-'06 Suzuki RM125. I can't see any real changes in the early 47mm Showa forks vs the later ones but I haven't worked on that many of them or really measured everything out. That said, there shouldn't be anything in the newer version Showa 47's that you couldn't install in the older models if there is a difference. On the shock, not sure if shaft size changed on the shock or whatever differences there are. I just know mine works great.
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