KDXRIDER.NET

Does the KIPS have to come apart to remove the piston? I am planning on doing my top end in the next couple of weeks. Also are there any tricks to make this whole process easier?

If you're doing the piston, you should dissemble the KIPS and clean them anyway. The nut on top of the rod coming from the RH engine cover to the kips in the cylinder is LH thread. You MUST support the rod when loosening the nut, or damage will occur. That's the only trick I can think of aside from GET A SERVICE MANUAL!

Not really anything to make the whole process "easier". Heck, if it was any easier I'd just have my 12 y/o daughter do it for me!

It's easy as pie anyway....

You will have to remove the claw.... but you will want to clean the KIPS while you are in there.... I like doing it myself so I can check the condition.

Re: 'Also are there any tricks to make this whole process easier?'

Guess that depends on how many 'tricks' you already know.

On reassy, I prefer to put the piston in the cylinder on the bench, then attach the piston to the rod as the cylinder is put on. I think it's easier than fussing with getting the rings into the cylinder if you put the piston on the rod first.

If you do it that way, put in ONE of the clips in the piston..the one that you can most easily apply the pin toward. For me, that's the LH clip ('cuz I'm right-handed).

Make sure you put the piston in the right way...arrow to the front. It will fit 180º out, but the bike won't run very well.



ALWAYS have the cases stuffed with rags when you're working on the top end. You will not be happy if a circlip goes 'sproing' and you don't know that it could NOT have possibly dropped into the crankcase.

Re: 'Does the KIPS have to come apart to remove the piston?'

The simple answer to that is, 'No.' It does not HAVE to come apart.

..doesn't mean it shouldn't be cleaned.

On reassy, I prefer to put the piston in the cylinder on the bench, then attach the piston to the rod as the cylinder is put on. I think it's easier than fussing with getting the rings into the cylinder if you put the piston on the rod first.

For me that would be the harder way to do it. I think it is much easier to install the piston on the rod first. This way you can see better and have better control aligning the piston pin hole and rod end bearing without the awkwardness of the cylinder fighting you. And you have better access to install the piston pin clip, they are critical.

It is very easy to hold the piston in one hand while squeezing the rings together making sure that the ring end gaps lined up with the locating pins.

Take the cylinder in the other hand and start on the ring gap side and rock slightly from front to back watching the end gaps and making sure they are in the proper position and gently slide the cylinder down. Make sure to watch that the ring do not hook or come out of the ring grooves.

..doesn't mean it shouldn't be cleaned.

Are you doing yours while you have the head off?

Ron

On reassy, I prefer to put the piston in the cylinder on the bench, then attach the piston to the rod as the cylinder is put on. I think it's easier than fussing with getting the rings into the cylinder if you put the piston on the rod first.

I have NEVER done that. Heck, I never even THOUGHT of that. When I get everything back Imma give it a shot and see if it works better for me too. I absolutely hate trying to get that cylinder down over the rings while the frame and every friggen thing else is in the way. To me that's the worst part of replacing a piston.

It's easy peasy.... just got to get down on it's level!

The very most important part is getting the circlips seated 100%!!!!! Install them at a 6 or 12 o clock position!

This should be fairly obvious...but if you put the piston in the cylinder first, you obviously don't slide the piston in past the wristpin hole, 'eh? I usually have a couple of blocks of wood scientifically designed, meticulously engineered, and handily crafted to hold the cylinder at the 'right' height so I don't have to fuss with holding it at all.

Not a bad idea to have the flywheel cover off so you can access the crank easily. Say...you use the kicker to move the rod to the right spot..and then move it too far, you'll want to turn the crank the other way to move the rod down. Usually you can use the crank counterweights just fine.

Depending on how high you have the cylinder set..you may hit the bottom of the piston with the rod if you continue the crank revolution..which may nudge the piston to far into the cylinder (can't 'see' the wristpin hole). You will want the cylinder as high as you can get it and still match the rod to the piston..that will give you more room.

Putting the piston on the rod first..you have a slimy oily mess between the pre-oiled piston, ring lands, and rings. And you're squeezing those slippery rings, making sure you index the pin to the gap, all while supporting the cylinder..maybe pushing on it some (oops..ran out of hands!)

Then it's all over again with ring 2.

It is certainly a matter of preference. I've done it both ways..prefer to put the piston in first.


Another obviosity..but the piston needs to be put in the cylinder 'square' to the rod. It's not the best idea to be rotating the piston onces the rings are inside the cylinder.

Re: 'Are you doing yours while you have the head off?'

The KIPS you mean? Of course not! 'Fer one, getting the KIPS out with the cylinder on is a great big PITA...if it can even be done. I did it for the RH subport drum..barely got it out.

'Fer another..my KIPS parts have always been real clean. A bit of soft carbon on the main valve that can be wiped off with a rag..but nothing worth worrying about.

..and my KIPS don't STINK, neither!

(Ah say..thass'a joke, son.)


Oh..when you first slide the rings past the intake port, it's a good idea to stick a finger or two in the port to push on the rings as they go up past the intake port edge.

Oh again...before you start all this cylinder assembly junk? DO be sure you put the base gasket on!!

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I have a service manual already, so I have been looking at. I have rebuilt engines before, but nothing with a KIPS type valve on it. I want to get the top end done by January. I am trying to race in the LACC in the spring. In Febuary I want to do the forks. So that will be my next obstacle.

Just give yourself 2 hours.....

Hey...none'a this has anything to do with 'obstacles'. It's fun..and you damn well better have a good time doing it!!!

Really!

I also prefer the piston in cylinder first method. I've done it both ways and just find it easier to trim a couple bits of wood to support things.

One thing I do is heat that LH nut on the top of the kips shaft for a couple of seconds with a propane torch. It should have loctite of some kind on it. Heating it releases the loctite and takes the load off whatever you do to keep it from rotating.

One thing that will help make the job more succesfull is cleaning BEFORE pulling the head and cylinder. Imagine your tank and radiators are off, head and cylinder is off, did I just see a wad of dried mud fall off the frame? Naaaah, eyes playing tricks.....

I have a friend who will make an excellent substitution for a couple blocks of wood.

His name isn't Charlie Brown, is it? He's a blockhead, yanno. According to Lucy, anyway....


On 'hints'....

Taking the nut off the LH end of the main shaft can be a bit touchy. If you simply jam the rack when that nut is removed there is an excellent chance of losing a tooth off the gear.

Support it in some way. Take the KIPS cover off and get a tool on the shaft, maybe.

I have not tried dowel, leather, or other 'jam' material. I did break that end tooth a long time ago. Now I don't have to worry about it!

Well it looks like I am out numbered on the way of installing a cylinder. But I will stick with what has worked for me over the past 40+ years of building race engines and shop customers engines. There is no one way to do this job and if something works for you, then use it. I prefer to use my mechanical skills and hands.

No special tools need for me like blocks of wood, hope it's a good hard wood and sanded and finished smooth. I don't even touch the piston pin clips with any steel tools, no screw drivers or pliers.

I guess good mechanical skills are my key.

Ron

Happy Holidays to all

I think a lot of people tried the piston in the cylinder first thing and went back to the other way. Different strokes for different folks.

FWIW, I've always done it RBD's way.

All right, I'll confess.
I always put the piston in the cylinder first. While fumbling around for my hammer to drive the wrist pin home I almost always knock the cylinder off the piston anyway and have to take it all off and start over.

2 hours, yeah right..........

Once while hammering an engine back together I forgot to put on the base gasket. I took scissors and cut it at each cylinder stud and once more so I could get it around the rod.

DON'T buy a bike from me

CC-
You sent me a PM. I think you got the wrong guy

That's pretty clever on the scissor thing. I once got all done to find a pair of clips in the wrapper for the piston. The rebuild had gone on over a week as I kept getting interrupted, but I was sure I had put the clips in the piston. I tore it down again and found the clips in place. Then I remembered buying an extra set of clips when I bought the piston kit the previous year.

I hate doing extra work after discovering I screwed up, and then finding out I forgot to remember I didn't screw up.

I wish I had a GPS to tell me where my GPS is.

KarlP wrote:
CC-
You sent me a PM. I think you got the wrong guy

Nope. Right guy.



Re: 'I prefer to use my mechanical skills and hands.'

Guess some of us prefer hammers, scissors, and splintery, nasty 'ol chunks of rotten dirt-caked wood.

...and extra clips in case we drop a few down them there holes!!