KDX rebuild - lack of parts/expertise/sound mind (with pics)

dhfox · Post by **dhfox** » 12:00 am Feb 12 2009

First off, I've tried searching as much as I could but, maybe cause I'm a beginner at this I need things spelled out a little more clearly!

Ok, we are rebuilding the top end of this old KDX220B here (I'm in China). This model came with turn signals, speedometer, metal gas tank and oil injection (notice oil tank hiding behind the 199 rear side plate).

Question 1 - Crank shaft:
Found that the crankshaft's rod has some pretty obvious side to side play. We didn't measure it (not sure how), but it's very likely out of spec. What do you think?

video of crank play here: http://www.vimeo.com/3182701

Here are pictures showing the gap (red arrow) where I saw and felt the side to side play:

Now, do we need to replace the entire crankshaft assembly, (as in part numbers: 13037, 13037A and others?)

Or can we just buy something like this to solve the problem: (wiseco rod kit)

Question 2: Cylinder
This cylinder has seen better days... and probably zero mantainance in its lifetime. Replacement seems necessary. Question is, is this cylinder the same as other KDX220R models (like the KDX220-A4 KDX220R (1997))? The reason why I ask is because this model is the KDX220 oil injection (street legal) model sold in Japan. I don't know if the US ever got this one. The only parts diagrams I can find are for the KDX220R... If the cylinders from both engines are the same, then I could buy a KDX220R cylinder off ebay pretty easily and just bolt it on to my engine.
If pictures will help, please examine these of the cylinder off this bike:

Question 3: Another strange thing is this carb boot. The outside looks pretty bad, but the inside is still smooth, uncracked rubber. It was not "homemade" but just repaired the outside. Why does it have an intake port? Is that because of the oil injection system? Anyway, here it is:

Question 4: Oil Injection system
Here is the tank (been repaired). Just below the tank you can see the cool fold down aluminum footpeg for a passenger!

This is the oil injection system in case you're interested.

Since I'll use this as an offroad only bike, I'm thinking of just mixing gas and not using the oil injection system. Pro's and Con's?

Based on what I've read on this site, Wiseco pistons are the only way to go.Most importantly now though is securing the correct cylinder and rods/crankshaft. Thank you for any comments you guys have.

This is a great site!

Chris in Sichuan

saddletramp · Post by **saddletramp** » 12:57 am Feb 12 2009

Welcome Chris, you have came to the right place. Thanks for the pictures, cool bike.

KarlP · Post by **KarlP** » 09:43 am Feb 12 2009

I'm sure others will chime in....

Some side to side play on the crank rod is normal. I could not open your video to see what was going on. Zero up/down play is allowed, but I'm sure you know that.

You might consider getting your cylinder cleaned up and replated, or buying another cylinder for comparison.

It appears the only useful comment I can offer at this point (I can't see your pictures) is that on other bikes where we have disabled the oil injection we just disconnected the cable and left the oil pump and tank intact and working. The pump sent a small amount of oil to the main crank bearings at all times.

SVandal · Post by **SVandal** » 11:45 pm Feb 12 2009

From what I have heard from talking to snowmobilers whose sleds came with oil injection, just remove it and premix. No reason for the extra weight hanging on the bike. As for the engine you got me stumped. As for the carb boot, they are only about 40.00 so I would just get a new one from an offroad model.

Thats my ideas anyways.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 01:23 pm Feb 13 2009

If there are no other symptoms or issues you're dealing with (the piston shattered and little bits of it are everywhere), don't worry about side play. It's a considerable amount in US bikes.

And agreed..as noted..it's the up/down that you need to be concernded with. 'None' is what you want. Anything you can feel or measure is too much.

That is one nasty looking crank cavity. What the heck happened? Looks like it's been running water injection. yuck!

If you are going to replace the rod, its bearings or anything having to do with the crank, you will need to find someone that knows how to do it. The cranks are press fit together. They are a delicate assy that can be ruined with just a bit of 'off' pressure during assembly. YET...they are aligned by banging on them with a hammer.

No joke.

I'm sure it's possible that someone that has never rebuilt a crank can do it. At some point, that was true of everyone that is now an expert crank rebuilder. Still....it is very rarely something riders do themselves.

As far as anything on your bike being 'the same' as the US bikes (the question involved the cylinder), the answer must always be, 'don't know'.

Time and time again overseas folks have found 'differences' in their bikes where none is documented. 'Fer instance, I don't know if the US style reed cage will fit in your cylinder. Certainly, I don't know to what extent port timing/configuration is the same...or not.

An 'H' (US) model cylinder may well bolt up just fine. I have absolutely no idea..and don't trust anyone that says otherwise unless they have specific experience with the SR bikes.

No reason your cylinder couldn't be replated. I'm assuming someone in China does that? Sending it overseas I suppose would be spendy.

It kind'a looks like the plating is all gone anyway! The only thing that even resembles Kaws electrofusion seems to be where the rings never touched the cylinder wall!

Your carb boot is toast. It's broke. Toss it. Any one of those cracks could develop into a leak and almost instant destruction of your bike. Get a new one.

A Wiseco piston will work.

Premix is generally considered better than an injection setup. Do it right, and it's always 'the same'. The point is to have 'X' amount of oil in 'Y' amount of gas. Premix does that perfectly...an autolube is going to be a little + here, and little - there. Certainly there are advantages to an autolube system, but those are generally related to convenience, not what works best.

Don't know how it works there, but other 'overseas' folks have been able to 'import' bike parts duty free if they are MARKED as repair or repaired parts. Different from something NEW you bought that you're going to bolt on.

Good luck! With a piston that half fast fits in the bore, it's going to run a WHOLE lot better!!!

BTW, what is 'China'? Taiwan? Or mainland? Just curious.

ivan_j · Post by **ivan_j** » 03:23 am Feb 16 2009

And some help from Bulgaria

Here are SR diagrams, just compare parts numbers of SR(B) with numbers of R(A) version. Just remember, R have more power than SR - different carburator, reed valves, etc.
Cylinders are same.
SR: http://www.megazip.ru/bike/kawasaki/137-3631.html
R: http://www.megazip.ru/bike/kawasaki/137-3630.html
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canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 03:25 pm Feb 16 2009

Re: 'Cylinders are same.'

Great! Can't beat, 'Been there. Done that.'

The cylinders being the same...the flange for the different reed cages are spaced/drilled the same? The 11060c suffixes match..but I have no idea what the words say, so a bit of guess.

I 'spose there is a translator to download..but I didn't.

I sort'a recalled some SR rider having trouble fitting an R reed cage in. It all had to do with changing from SR stuff to R stuff..what I'm thinking of maybe had to do with having to shoehorn in the carb with his OEM SR airbox and an R intake carb boot.

I guess I'd expect some surprises mixing and matching parts between models.

ivan_j · Post by **ivan_j** » 05:13 am Feb 21 2009

OK, i'll translate for you.
Detail # 11005-1744 is cylinder. Same part # for R and for SR.
11060c is gasket between cylinder and crankcase. It's the same also.
Reed cages are different(I suppose suction diameter), but reed valves are same.
At all, cylinders are replaceble, dhfox can purchase new cylinder(i not recommend used one) or replate old one.
SR can easily be converted in R for more power and torque.

canyncarvr, the language is russian, try google's translator.
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Byte · Post by **Byte** » 05:38 pm Mar 20 2009

ivan_j wrote:And some help from Bulgaria
Here are SR diagrams, just compare parts numbers of SR(B) with numbers of R(A) version. Just remember, R have more power than SR - different carburator, reed valves, etc.
Cylinders are same.
SR: http://www.megazip.ru/bike/kawasaki/137-3631.html
R: http://www.megazip.ru/bike/kawasaki/137-3630.html

ANyone have english versions of above links?

BYte

Post by **Indawoods** » 05:54 pm Mar 20 2009

http://translate.google.com/translate?p ... l=ru&tl=en

http://translate.google.com/translate?p ... l=ru&tl=en

Byte · Post by **Byte** » 06:04 pm Mar 20 2009

thanks mate

Tuco · Post by **Tuco** » 07:31 am Mar 26 2009

Yes, your auto lube has been disconnected. I would be careful having the old auto lube hole left unplugged in the carburetor manifold. You don't want any access air getting in there. If there are cracks on the manifold, replace it.

Question 4: That is not the auto lube tank. That is the cooling system reservoir tank. The 2 stroke oil tank should be located above the engine somewhere, unless it has been removed.

Good luck with the restoring.

80elkster · Post by **80elkster** » 09:14 am Mar 26 2009

Uhh I'm no expert on the SR but arent the coolant tanks just behind the right side radiator? If so then that would make sense for the oil tank to be behind the left side plate. The confusion may come about since the E (89-94) models have thier coolant catch tank behind the left side plate just above the rear tire. I know that is where it is at on my 93, how bout Morie's and Wibby's?????

Post by **Julien D** » 10:49 am Mar 26 2009

Question 4: That is not the auto lube tank. That is the cooling system reservoir tank. The 2 stroke oil tank should be located above the engine somewhere, unless it has been removed.

As you can see from his picture, that tank is NOT the same tank as KDX200's use for the coolant overflow. The tank in his picture has 2 distinctly separate sections. I assume the forward section is coolant overflow, and the rearmost section is the oil reservoir. Study the picture a bit more and you can see the divider and the separate caps for each section.

J.

Post by **Indawoods** » 11:23 am Mar 26 2009

Never the less... that tank has been patched several times and I would not trust it at all!

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 11:57 am Mar 26 2009

80elkster wrote:Uhh I'm no expert on the SR but arent the coolant tanks just behind the right side radiator? If so then that would make sense for the oil tank to be behind the left side plate. The confusion may come about since the E (89-94) models have thier coolant catch tank behind the left side plate just above the rear tire. I know that is where it is at on my 93, how bout Morie's and Wibby's?????

Thats where its at on mine.

Post by **Julien D** » 02:28 pm Mar 26 2009

Indawoods wrote:Never the less... that tank has been patched several times and I would not trust it at all!

Agreed. If it were me that tank would be headed straight for the trash bin.

Colorado Mike · Post by **Colorado Mike** » 05:29 pm Mar 26 2009

I thought I remember some of the SRs had bolt-on exhaust flanges vs the R's spring-held method. If you got a US cylinder, it might not be drilled and tapped for the exhaust bolts.

Tuco · Post by **Tuco** » 07:46 pm Mar 26 2009

As you can see from his picture, that tank is NOT the same tank as KDX200's use for the coolant overflow. The tank in his picture has 2 distinctly separate sections. I assume the forward section is coolant overflow, and the rearmost section is the oil reservoir. Study the picture a bit more and you can see the divider and the separate caps for each section.

Well, I'll be Bob! J, you seem to be right. There are two tanks back there in question 4 picture.

I ride the 250SR and dare I say it, assumed the oil tank would be in the same position for 200s and 220s, that is, behind the right handside shroud.

My 2 cents worth says, buy a new tank(s) and connect the autolube system back up. Especially if you are going to be riding street as well.
It just saves the hassle of mixing up each time you fill up your tank.

Post by **Indawoods** » 09:49 pm Mar 26 2009

China must be blocking KDXRIDER.NET... haven't heard from the dude since his first post.