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I mixed up 5 gallons of gas/premix and I think I got some bad fuel or the pump gave me 87 octane instead of 91. My bike was pinging, it has never pinged. It is 20 degrees warmer than when I jetted my bike last winter so if anything I am running rich. I hate to dump the gas after paying $2.60 a gallon for the fuel. Has anyone used octane booster from an auto parts store with good results?

I don't know how well that would work but you might try getting another 5 gallons of 91 from a different station, add premix to it and then cut your other gas that was pinging 1/2 and 1/2 and see if that does the trick.

-Maurice

I've used Clifford Research 104+ a few times. It did slow the burn enough that I noticed a drop in power at low revs (like my attempts at mixing Trick114 does).

But it works. Of course, more octane doesn't mean more power.

...unless you're experiencing detonation/pinging problems. In that case, a slower burn is advantageous over hitting the piston on the head with a sledge every time it comes up!

I've tried a number of other octane boosters over the years, most for bracket racing my car. 104+ was by far the best choice...actually, the only one that did a 1/2 fast job!

Dave: Please check the TCII thread you started? (in case you don't have it marked for notification?) Thanks!

$2.60 won't buy you a gallon of 92 'round here!

CC,

Did you ever try Toluene?

No, sir.

I've read that it is the choice of many riders.

Other than being intoxicating, neurotoxic and addictive...what OTHER good is it?


Something like a 30% mix with pump premium will get you 100 octane?

How does it compare to race fuel (C12, Trick) mixes for raising octane?

I gather that most of its manufacture is for the purpose of adding to gasoline anyway.

I've never checked its availability...or its cost.

Dave.. Check this out:

http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html

1000bhp/liter. Isn't THAT something!

Does this:

elektro.com wrote:Toluene is denser than ordinary gasoline (0.87 g/mL vs. 0.72-0.74) and contains more energy per unit volume.'

..mean that while it increases octane (reduces ping/detonation), that effect is offset by more energy per unit?

UNlike race fuel mixes, which seem to slow things down.

...although..just cuz it's a slower burn doesn't mean it has less energy...

The above link makes it sound like God's gift to engine power!

$5/qt...$50/5gal. at the paint store across the street.

Ron...do you have a preference for % mix? Probably related to engine requirements. 'eh?

Figure with pump gas volume for premix ratio? (1gal Tolune/4gal gasoline--16oz 2-stroke oil = 40:1?) That would be a 20% mix to go from 92 to 96.4 octane?

Thats a pretty interesting link. Wonder how well it works. You going to give it a try CC?

-Maurice

Yup! That's the plan.

I need to look around..find it for less than $10 a gallon, though. That's stiff.

It being part of the 'vapor' part of gasoline, I wonder what its distillation curve figures are. I didn't look for a chart.

The Trick I've used is too much on the slow side (@ 20% anyway) to suit me. But...I've got to do something!! If I keep wickin' it with the death rattle my bike has...it's going to go BOOM!

KaPow, even!

From what Ski said about his experience with different mixes of C12...that fuel worked the same way for him.

I'm trying 1/2 gallon of Trick114 with 4.5 gallons of 92 octane (Shell...that seems to work better than other major brand premiums) this weekend. I'll see how that works.

You can get Toluene and Xylene at paint stores. If you know a painting contractor, they can get it at a better price. The more you buy the cheeper it is.

Yeah $10 a gallon is nuts...I'd imagine that with some looking around you should be able to find it for closer to the $5/gallon that is mentioned in that article.

-Maurice

It IS a paint store that's across the street. All they have is quarts and 5-gallon containers...and it's $10/gal in the 5-gallon size.

Ron, does stored toluene degrade faster than stored gasoline? Five gallons would last me quite awhile.

CC,

Stores very well, just keep it sealed and in a cool place.

Very enlightening article!

I had no idea of the effects and have always put off porting because the race gas was always hard to find when you needed it. Now I might change my mind. I just want to know...how come this is the first time I have heard of this? I am not that sheltered am I?

CC - What do you figure that 1/2 gal of 114 in 4 1/2 gals 92 octane gas is going to yield octane wise? Attempting to eliminate pinging?

I've run 114 Union 76 gas at 20% 25% 33% 40% 50% ratios. Mostly for throttle response and head cooling when temperatures are over 90 degrees. At 33% percent I can tell the throttle response is better, at 40% I need to change the main to get the most out of the engine. I've really not noted many significant changes at concentrations of less than 1:3. (Other than race gas smell and less spooge) .

I was not doing it to eliminate ping or anything just basically for the throttle response and running the engine a little cooler in high temperature or high load conditions. Bikes were '94 WR250 and 380 EXCs

Good tips Guys

I'm going to try some this weekend in the bike.

I have a 69 SS 396 Chevelle that is also going to get the toluene test this weekend. I'll be able to tell if it works instantly by pinging (or lack of) and coolant temperature. Lets see, 1 gal toluene 4 gals 91 octane = about 45 miles in the Chevelle. No wonder they quit making them

Let us know how the mixes work out. I've been under the impression due to reading several articles that weighted averaging of octanes in mixtures were not an accurate way of determining the new octane rating. (Molorality averaging?)

I do know a theoretical chemist, a phD physical chemist and my brother is a Chemical Engineer. Possible between the three of them I can find out why or why not a simple weighted averaging should work for a mixture. Two of these guys are research scientists so this will not be a simple answer for them.

Bottom Line - what works is what is important.

dave04kdx wrote:I have a 69 SS 396 Chevelle that is also going to get the toluene test this weekend. I'll be able to tell if it works instantly by pinging (or lack of) and coolant temperature. Lets see, 1 gal toluene 4 gals 91 octane = about 45 miles in the Chevelle. No wonder they quit making them

Yeah, but 45 miles has never been so much fun. We've got a 70 250 Nova thats waiting for a engine/transmission transplant. I keep getting the feeling that a warmed over 383 will be the ticket!

-Maurice

I like the older Nova and Chevelles and would like tol hot rod either one. Only so much money, time, and space for toys though. But if I win the lottery, watch out!!!

Good read....Never thought about using Tolulene as an octace booster or a straight-fuel! I use it w/ Methanol/Nitro. Helps tunability w/ the nitro, and helps keep the alky/nitro/pre-mix in solution...This article has the gears tuning though...

Re Porting.....IMO Porting doens't have anthing to do w/ the need to run race gas...Well, it can. Port jobs can be mild, or wild just like cam grinds can be. Some necessitate head mods & race gas, some don't. I don't think I would ever port my bikes for anything more than to 'smooth it out.'

I'm sold on the toluene!! I never would have expected the results that I got today. Thanks to RB for the suggestion

I put one quart in the tank of the KDX, which still contained about 2 gallons of the questionable gas. I didn't quit smiling through the whole 27 mile ride today. The power was way up, quicker throttle response, engine sounded and reacted very smooth. A quick blip of the throttle in second gear lifted the front wheel. Amazing in the fact that I only used one quart. I plan to experiment further, maybe 15 to 20 % next time.

The Chevelle got one gal to 4 gals 91 octane pump gas. Same results as above, except for lofting the front wheel The coolant temp was normal for this time of year, about 190.


CC's article seems to hold true, more energy in the toluene.

Muscle cars rule. Loud, obnoxious, smelly...kind of like 2 stroke's

re: '..what do you figure...yield..?'

If the question is 'what octane", by the math, 1/2 gallon of Trick114 with 4.5 gallons of pump 92 should get me 94.2. Attempting to eliminate knock? Yep.

**edit**
That number (94.2) seemed familiar...looked at the toluene FAQ to refresh my recall that toluene is indeed rated @ 114 octane, so the math is the same as with the Trick114 I have used. Again, while the numbers may be the same, that doesn't mean the volatility/distillation curve characteristic of the two are the same. I don't pretend to understand how: Octane being a measurement of resistance to premature combustioin, two fuels that measure the same octane would have different power output and knock-resistance? Anyone with an explanation of that??...I'd appreciate hearing it.

**edit**

Did it work? Sat/Sun were both pretty tight trail days, not quite the extended WOT that shows the problem at its worst. Enough of it that gave me reason to think 1/2gal. will do it. AND, the bottom end is still ok.

IF toluene has not only more energy but burn-time-wise it's fairly fast without pinging...well that would be great! Sounds from Dave's experience it's something to look forward to!

Thanks for the tip, Ron!!

re: 'porting doesn't...' I would've agreed before my port job.. now I know for a fact the opposite is true. Air/fuel ratio, vaporization and static pressure of the charge and (considering a known good fuel) are two things that can effect a detonation situation. Porting certainly can effect all of those factors. That puts porting (mine anyway) in the, 'Well, it can...' category.

Dave: Where'd 'ya get your toluene..and what did have to pay for it? 5 gallons?

What a deal!! I've heard of toluene use in fuel before...but never looked into it's characteristics. Here we've got the tip...a write-up about the stuff...and some hands-on testing!!

If they can get 1k/hp out of liter, that makes my kdx good for about 200 ponies. Ha! Can you even imagine?