spark plug: opinion needed

[scheckaet]

What do you think of this?
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d77/s ... ure004.jpg
The plug is the stock 1, it is a bit moist, and it's a dark brown-black.
The inside of the plug looks dry and grayish.
Is my jetting still too rich?
The bike starts well, idle good, runs good, there is no bog or anything, the throttle response is good.
My mods are: (200)
mix 1:32 (motul) 95 pump gas
no air box lid
FMF gnarly wood
I went down 1 size on the main and pilot from stock
I run the clip in the midle
But I have lots of spooge coming out of the muffler (repacked 2 weeks ago) and it drips on my brakes
Should I go leaner?

Thx

Wilf

[canyncarvr]

They have 95 octane pump gas in OK? How much MTBE is in THAT?


Pics are misleading...but who else thinks that looks like the grey ash of death?

Where's the dark brown moist part?

The line opposite the ground electrode is...not a crack, right?

I'd suggest not running this bike until some folks here have a chat with you.

What's your el?

'One down' means...your running a 165? Your pilot is....what? A 42?

When you took the carb out, did you take the boot off? The reeds out?

No kidding. Unless the color in the pic is way off, I wouldn't run the bike until it was fixed.

BTW...I've taken plug reads that were leaner'n Nicole Ritchie and I was jetted quite close. Happened to be a blow-by/intake charge preheat goober (THANK you USChrome!!). Had a severe case of the drips, too. I'm saying a plug check only works when other things are 'good'. Oh..and it's possible to have a brand new bike that never did seat the rings.

On the cheerful side....tomorrow IS Saturday!!

BTW agin..I have no idea who Nicole Ritchie even IS. She's has been in the news lately as killing herself via squeezing her heart shut via ribs and backbone juxtaposition.

[Indawoods]

She is running very lean!
I'd raise that pilot and main back up one if I was you. It is the inside of the plug that you are concerned with... and it looks way too lean.

After you go up one size on the pilot and main... try 40:1 mix.

Where is your air screw sitting?

[IdahoCharley]

It is hard to tell from pictures but I don't see the gray ash of death. (I think of the gray ash of death being between the electrode tip surface and the tip of the insulator though and not the coloring of the insulator. Contrary to some other opinions - I'm sure)

Looks to me to be too used of a plug to get a good read on though. The insulator looks to me like it had carbon built up on and then on a pre-reading plug run the bike started to burn the some of the carbon off and maybe what we are seeing is a crack in the carbon layering the insulator. The inside of the metal plug shell looks like it was carboned up pretty well recently also leading me to think the bike is not too lean overall.

I would replace the plug with a new one and then perform a WOT check for the main jet. Going by feel and bike response from there. I'am thinking you may be jetted close at WOT (if immediately prior to pulling this plug you ran the bike at WOT) but have a rich condition somewhere in the carb circuit. Possibly the stock needle if your still using it. KIPS working? Bike have any "hit" where it just comes alive?

[Indawoods]

With the weather getting cooler, I don't think you are going to hurt anything going up in size on your jets.

It may be that you have a good carbon coating on the insulator as IC says and the suggestion to swap out plugs is always the first thing you should do to get a real base reading of what your bike is doing.

Another thing to think about is, the pipe may be holding allot of that spoo and is now getting cleared out.....

[cmot]

Some good advice for sure, Start with a new plug and do some testing. But I would also add if your running pretty much basic setup, IE; FMF pipe and maybe some aftermarket reeds you can go to fredette's website and get the base jetting and should be real close. If your plug still looks like that and your getting a lot of spooge then you might be sucking oil in your right crank seal. I have seen that plug before. If you have a bad left or right seal it totaly blows ANY jetting out the door. I dont know about Motul,. I run Golden Spectro at 45 to 1 when I ride with my kid doing slow work and 40 to 1 doing faster riding. 32 to 1 seems excessive to me unless Motul is different. Draper is real tight woods riding you could be loading up and burning it off at the same time.
By the way I live just outside of Edmond and ride at Draper. Give me a hollar.

[scheckaet]

They have 95 octane pump gas in OK

nope, was thinkin about my top speed , I meant 91 or wahtever the highest at the pump is

The line opposite the ground electrode is...not a crack, right?

nope not a crack, it was some of that greyish deposit (carbon?), actually more like tanned brown (defenitly NOT white grey)
I do see some white grey on the tip of the electrode.
The moist is more on the outer part (screwing part)

When you took the carb out, did you take the boot off? The reeds out?

I only took the carb out.


ok
here is what I am running: (200 05 model)
stock needle, middle clip
pilot: 45
main 158
air screw 2.5

(The stock was:
pilot 48
main 160)

It seems odd to me now that the dealership gave me this when I asked for 1 size down ...(I assumed at the time this was normal, now I have my doubts)

I ran about 35 miles this morning and showed the plug to one of the guys and said it didn't look lean.

Is there a website with pics of what a lean condition looks like?
The inside is dry but not white-grey more like brown-taned.

I will get 1 size up next week no matter what and see what the plug looks like after a ride.

As far as changing the mix ratio... since I'm not the best at getting perfect jetting (obviously ) i'd rather be on the safe side and run a bit too rich than too lean. Maybe when i'll get more comfortable with jetting I'll try another mix ratio.

thx
wilf

[IdahoCharley]

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/spark ... talog.html

[Indawoods]

Rich / Lean and oil - You got it backwards.

[Indawoods]

In my experience... a 158 is too fat. You are about at the same elevation as me and a 155 is perfect for a stock 200 carb in these parts. Your pilot sounds right though.

[grump99]

In my experience... a 158 is too fat. You are about at the same elevation as me and a 155 is perfect for a stock 200 carb in these parts. Your pilot sounds right though.

I would agree with this. Before I had my carb modded, I was running with the same exact mods as you. 152/42 worked well in the summer. In colder weather, I ran 155/45, which worked well even below freezing. Of course every bike is different, so a plug chop would be a good idea. Good luck!

[canyncarvr]

48-160 is what the KDX200 comes with (supposed to).

My 165 comment was off..I've run that and richer in the sand at sea level.

You understand the 'backwards' part of what Inda said? 40:1 is more rich air/fuel wise than is 32:1.

There is continual reference to color and what it means. Take note: It means pretty much nothing as far as a tell for air/fuel mixture. Temperature range of the plug? Yeah.

Besides that, consider that you have a number of circuits in the carb that work at different throttle positions..and there is a lot of overlap. IF color told you anything mixture-wise (again, it does not), looking at the color after miles of riding wouldn't tell you squat about any particular carb circuit because you have been using all if not most of them.

42/155 is likely closer to where you should be.

How did you come up with 2.5 turns out on the air screw? Do you have an RB modified carb? If you don't, the chances of 2.5 being correct isn't too good. More likely an indication that your pilot jet is too big and the air screw is being misadjusted in an effort to fix THAT.

A too big main jet will effect air screw settings even if your pilot IS correct. That's part of the overlapping of carb circuits.

Remembering how a stock 200 runs..I'd say that at 2.5 out and your current jet setup, you have LOTS of improvement to look forward to.

Have fun!

[scheckaet]

Ok thanks you for the the input. I understand more than ever now that I knew nothing
I need more clarification though. It seems I have the lean / rich condition backward.
I always thought rich meant too much fuel, and in consequence the plug would look darker because of the unburnt fuel.

If I understand correctly now when you are talking about the lean / rich you are talking about the air? Not the fuel?
Rich would then mean too much air?
Am I completly off?

Another thing I don't really understand:

I run Golden Spectro at 45 to 1 when I ride with my kid doing slow work and 40 to 1 doing faster riding.

If I understand you use less oil when riding fast? I thought the faster you rode the more lubrification you needed. What am I missing?????????

If you know of a website or a post that explains all that in real simple terms, please let me know, I need all the help I can get. (don't want to sound so much like a fool )

[Indawoods]

32:1 mean 32 part fuel and 1 part oil
40:1 means 40 parts fuel and 1 part oil

Which is leaner? Or..which has more fuel in it?


Get it?

I run Golden Spectro at 45 to 1 when I ride with my kid doing slow work and 40 to 1 doing faster riding.

Again...

45:1 is more fuel = less oil per gallon
40:1 is less fuel = more oil per gallon

[scheckaet]

Another thing I don't really understand:
Quote:

I run Golden Spectro at 45 to 1 when I ride with my kid doing slow work and 40 to 1 doing faster riding.


If I understand you use less oil when riding fast? I thought the faster you rode the more lubrification you needed. What am I missing?????????

never mind that last part about the oil ratio...I'm sleep deprived

[canyncarvr]

The amount of oil you need is, well, the amount of oil you need. That 'amount' depends on the oil and the engine it's in. Ex: An MX 125 will likely need more oil than a KDX200 in the woods. The former is spinning up around a couple billion RPM, and the KDX is, well, much less than that.

Synthetics usually call for less than dino oil.

Without knowing what your engine needs, it's likely best to follow the recommendation of the oil manufacturer. Maxima says their SuperM at 40:1 is good for a 200cc dirt bike. That's my flavor. It's worked well for years, so I don't figure on messing with it. My KIPS stays clean and loose, the head is clean after a two year run and I can still see the texture on the top of the piston after that amount of time.

BTW, a 2-stroke WILL make more power (jetting corrected) the more oil you run..to the point of not being able to light the plug. Piston/cylinder sealing improves with more oil.

So..while you may not notice the diff, correctly jetted, you WILL make more power at 32:1 than you will at 40:1. That's been dyno-proven a long time ago.

Considering the cost of oil ($40/gal in pints?), normally the ratio used is what will work as far as life in the engine, but won't break the bank..and lay a fog that skeets miles away shrink from in fear.

[fuzzy]

With the weather getting cooler, I don't think you are going to hurt anything going up in size on your jets

With coler weather you HAVE to fatten up! Well, if you were jetted 'perfect' in warmer weather.

[scheckaet]

I need more clarification though. It seems I have the lean / rich condition backward.
I always thought rich meant too much fuel, and in consequence the plug would look darker because of the unburnt fuel.

If I understand correctly now when you are talking about the lean / rich you are talking about the air? Not the fuel?
Rich would then mean too much air?

Anybody can confirm? Am I too much?

[canyncarvr]

Like Inda said, you had it backwards to start...and the quote in the post just above is also backwards.

40:1 is MORE RICH than is 32:1.

That's because there is MORE FUEL per part of oil in the 40:1.

Or...there is LESS OIL per volume in the 40:1.

More rich is more fuel per unit volume. More lean (less rich if you like) is LESS fuel per unit volume.

Please note: Even if you do understand it perfectly, that does NOT mean you are NOT drinking too much!!

Where's my martini..............

[scheckaet]

Da't defenetly make more zense now ...
Zank u wery muutch...

Wat do you conzider 2 muuuch? 24 pack?
Maybe I should stop snorking that gazoline in the garage. I should keep the door open

Note: I have riden before with a bit of a hangover (30 miles in 95+ temp) and I swore I'd never do that again, boy that hurts... it's as good as:

Thanks for the help y'all. I really wonder what I would do without this website and you good folks.
Because of you all, I am a better rider (still not very good though but working on it) and most importantly a better mecanic! (and as far as I know you can't be a good rider if you can't check and tune your bike!)
Anyway, thanks Inda, this website rules