Planning on Millennium Technologies 225 kit

[Chopperpilot]

Took the cylinder off the 200 KDX the other day and everything looks pretty decent except for the complete lack of any cross hatching and the beginning of vertical streaks on the almost mirror like cylinder. It looks like Millennium has a complete kit (you send your stuff to them) that's only about $150-200 more than what a nikasil coating (with piston and gasket kits) would be anyway. So I'm probably going that route. Anyone used this kit? I know Millennium has a great reputation.

[KDXGarage]

There is very little cross hatching on a new cylinder from the factory. I know most other brands do have that when new, but old Electrofusion coating does not. I have a new OEM cylinder for my 1994 200 as well a new OEM engine for my 2005 KX250. The KX250 looks like a bear scratched it compared to the KDX cylinder.

[Chopperpilot]

But just to be clear (this is only my 2nd electrofusion cylinder to send in for repair, the one on my KLX650R had an entire patch missing) if there is zero evidence of any cross hatch and just vertical streaks/stripes, it's time for repair right?

This is the response from Millennium when I asked about future top ends with this kit vs going to a standard 220 bore:
The BBK will start you off with the A size piston and with good maintenance and ring changes you could get 200+ hrs before a b size piston is needed. You also can have it replated back down to the a size 4 or more times.



The BBK also comes with custom porting so everything works together just like an off the rack 220.



Sincerely,

Jason Duplantis

Sales Manager

Millennium Technologies

1-888-779-6885 ext 371

[KDXGarage]

Yes, if it is worn out, it is worn out. Eric Gorr used to offer a 223cc option. Is this the same thing?

[Chopperpilot]

I'm not sure, but probably so. I'm going to send them everything and I'll miss out on cleaning all the KIPS pieces.......

[Chuck78]

But just to be clear (this is only my 2nd electrofusion cylinder to send in for repair, the one on my KLX650R had an entire patch missing) if there is zero evidence of any cross hatch and just vertical streaks/stripes, it's time for repair right?

This is the response from Millennium when I asked about future top ends with this kit vs going to a standard 220 bore:
The BBK will start you off with the A size piston and with good maintenance and ring changes you could get 200+ hrs before a b size piston is needed. You also can have it replated back down to the a size 4 or more times.



The BBK also comes with custom porting so everything works together just like an off the rack 220.



Sincerely,

Jason Duplantis

Sales Manager

Millennium Technologies

1-888-779-6885 ext 371

I would just make sure that it's a Wossner A-size piston. Wiseco offers coated skirts, just not for our pistons! The Wossner Pistons are a superior alloy composition that has less thermal expansion and contraction than the Wiseco, & Wossner pistons come stock with coated skirts which will help the cylinder plating last a lot longer.

Yes, if it is worn out, it is worn out. Eric Gorr used to offer a 223cc option. Is this the same thing?

Yes, Eric Gorr offered a 223cc "225" big bore kit, & the sleeved "240" big bore (which I would not recommend even if they were still available).
His "225 big bore" was just a 70.00mm Wiseco KDX220 piston @ 223cc. No B-size or C-size available for those unfortunately. I paid I believe $400 for a complete engine in pieces but crankcase has not split, that came with supposedly a freshly plated and ported 70 mm cylinder but no matching head. This was before I realized you couldn't get B&C sized 70mm pistons, & the cylinder has a fair bit of wear on the plating we're having very low hours allegedly... it was done by a shop in Eastern Canada called CV Tech at the time, they've changed ownership and names now. I need to cut ahead for this cylinder as the head was still 69 mm bore, which probably led to the Piston smacking the outer edge of the chamber as I witnessed some telltale impressions on the edge of the piston that tell me this was the case... Shame, shame...


At any rate though, Gary Braun I believe is the guy's name that is the two-stroke porting wizard at Millennium, some local road racers praise his porting work to a high degree here, and through my conversations with him about KX 125 porting, he really knows his stuff pretty well. I wouldn't hesitate to have them do a 69.00mm Wossner A-sized big bore + porting + head work.
I know that Ron Black and another veteran KDX tuner had said that maybe the 200 head was not the most ideal for making a 220 big bore out of, as the spark plug location/depth in the head + the dome thickness were less than ideal as the head needs re-chambered entirely because raising bore size also raises compression ratio if you don't enlarge the head volume as well as diameter, but I know Eric Gorr previously did this all the time and talked bad of the 220 cylinder - he much prefers to start with a 200 cylinder when doing this job, as most people who are well-versed in KDX and KX 2 strokes of this era always like to mill down the cylinder base gasket surface to drop the ports, in order to lower the transfer port height, and the 220 ports are already very low considering it's designed for low-end torque and has lower port timing, so if trying to lower the typical 1990s Kawasaki transfer port height (which is now considered antiquated design being too high for proper modern porting theory/design), bringing it up to modern specs by dropping the transfer ports, the 220 cylinder ports would really need welded up a bit, which Eric Gorr did not care to do.

[Chuck78]

My friend Sebastien had two cylinders ported, one by Pro Circuit and one by Boyko Racing, and both tuners independently did about the same job on them and both had cut down the cylinder base gasket surface to drop the port height. Sebastien's are still at 198cc stock bore with a fresh plating job on both, but he says the amount of low end torque and improved throttle response over a 200E or 200H stock cylinder and head is phenomenal. He actually says it's more powerful than his well-tuned and modified RMX 250, with the KDX200H @ 198cc still... At all RPM ranges. He was pretty blown away with the porting secrets of these old veteran tuning wizards.

Porting is a very scientific and very precisely calculated art to master, so choosing a very skilled and calculated shop to perform this work for you is critical.
I've ridden two different 220's that were ported by "Mr KDX" the long time KDX racer who does so much for our bikes, and I wasn't nearly as impressed with that porting job as I am just a Lectron carb or RB'd PWK35 on a stock fresh 220 cylinder with basic porting cleanup and a Ron Black head modification job with a Pro Circuit Platinum 2 pipe.
The Gnarly Desert pipe compromises too much bottom end even on a 220, for technical riding. It makes it in the technical stuff on a 220 with that pipe, but the Pro Circuit is just a BEAST of an expansion chamber design... I also feel like a high RPM pipe matched with the low RPM cylinder is a poor choice as both are fighting each other and end up with a compromise. The Pro Circuit is an all around more power pipe with a massive mid-range and almost as much bottom end as the Gnarly Woods, just not nearly as smooth, with it explosive mid-range and excellent top end.
Perhaps on a professionally ported cylinder, the Gnarly Desert Pipe would have a more acceptable bottom end power?

By the way Pro Circuit is taking backorder requests on the KDX H-series pipes again.

[billie_morini]

Encyclopedia Britannica ain't got nothing on Chuck!

[Chopperpilot]

Millennium was saying there's a A and B size piston for their kit, not the Wossner piston. Which I don't seem to be able to find a A and B size listed for the Wiseco pistons like you said. I currently have a ProCircuit platinum pipe (it came on the bike), it's a platinum 1, not a 2.

[KDXGarage]

must be real old then to not be Platinum 2, like a FMF Fatty or Gnarly

[Chuck78]

Millennium was saying there's a A and B size piston for their kit, not the Wossner piston. Which I don't seem to be able to find a A and B size listed for the Wiseco pistons like you said. I currently have a ProCircuit platinum pipe (it came on the bike), it's a platinum 1, not a 2.

Perhaps Millenium and Eric Gorr were having Wiseco make custom batches of B & C oversizes? Eric Gorr certainly was having his 240 kit pistons custom made.

I'm really curious about this non-Wossner KDX220 B-size and C-size piston offering, but primarily for the 70.01mm & 70.02mm sizes... As Wossner offers only 69.0x mm and nothing 70.0x, & Wiseco only offers 70.00mm & no 70.01mm B & no 70.01mm C-sizes. My ported cylinder, which I've never ran personally, is worn a bit to the point of probably needing a B-size. I need to buy a new dial bore gauge in metric, as my ancient Mitutoyo in inch sizing probably needs recalibrated by the manufacturer by now... But I can feel a slight ridge at the top of the bore. I'm probably going to send that cylinder + a stock 220 cylinder freshly re-plated by PowerSeal USA 4 years ago & still on my shelf (& a 220 crank) to Boyko Racing for evaluation, and proper port chamfererring on PowerSeal's work + basic porting cleanup on that one, & comparison & critiquing of the CV Tech (Canada , different ownership & name now) porting job vs stock 220 porting job.

My other remaining 220 cylinder + a stock head, I plan on sending out to probably Tom Morgan Racing for his porting mastery. I'd like to call both these guys especially Tom and see what they think of the 220 cylinder approach vs a 200, due to the lower stock port heights on the 220 getting in the way of dropping the transfer ports lower by turning down the cylinder base.

[Chuck78]

This is the response from Millennium when I asked about future top ends with this kit vs going to a standard 220 bore:
The BBK will start you off with the A size piston and with good maintenance and ring changes you could get 200+ hrs before a b size piston is needed. You also can have it replated back down to the a size 4 or more times.

The BBK also comes with custom porting so everything works together just like an off the rack 220.

Sincerely,

Jason Duplantis
Sales Manager
Millennium Technologies
1-888-779-6885 ext 371

Okay, so this above reply from Millennium definitely is saying they have an A-size (70.00mm) & B-size (70.01mm most likely) piston offering for their '95+ KDX "225" big bore kits... I suppose I need to have Boyko Racing measure and inspect and re-hone my CV Tech replated/ported 220 cylinder (Ted Boyko has a diamond hone for Nikasil type platings for his honing machine) and then get a B-sized piston from Millennium if it'll be a better fit than the 70.00mm sole offering from Wiseco...

I'm really curious if these are just a special order / custom order B-size from Wiseco, and WHY IN THE HECK Wiseco just doesn't stock this on their own?!?!? Then again, Wiseco only sells 66.00mm / +0.50mm / +1.00mm etc oversizes up to 68.00mm then 69.00mm and +1.00mm@ 70.00mm for the 220 or 200.
I'd be very curious to see these pistons, but I sure wish they were Wossners or at least had coated skirts like Wossners!

If they were a cast piston, that would be absolutely INCREDIBLE...

Please pry a little and report back with more piston details.

[Chuck78]

Wow, check out the squish band on that head! That's a wider squish than a Ron Black 220 69.00mm bore head! That'd suggest that the porting is to match, and that it has very ample low end torque once the crankcase and engine are verified to not have any air leaks (epoxy fill the curved slotted recesses next to the left side crank seal behind the stator, they frequently have thin porous castings there!!!!), and once it is jetted correctly!

https://millennium-technologies.com/pro ... rvice-kit/

Also, zooming in, that Millennium 225 kit piston certainly does appear to have a Wiseco style long part number etched into the middle of the crown/dome in typical Wiseco length/style format...

KDX200_Millennium-225_kit.jpg (209.66 KiB) Viewed 9277 times

https://millennium-technologies.com/product/2003-2005-kawasaki-kx125-144cc-big-bore-service-kit/

I think I'd pretty well endorse the Millennium 225 kits after talking to their porting guy Gary Braun in general (about a woods ported 134cc/144cc KX125 build) and seeing this photo. I thought they may just use a default Kawasaki photo for all the 4 pages worth of Kawasaki big bore kit listings on their page, but that looked an awful lot like an actual '95+ KDX cylinder, and zooming in to the casting number on the cylinder, that sure does look like the 1742 that is the second half of the part # always cast onto the '95-'06 KDX200 cylinder jugs...

Here is a an RB'd 220 head vs a stock KDX220SR head (massively wide squish band for the street legal low RPM focused international version the USA never got), and a stock 220 head. The Millenium "225" 70mm 223.2cc kit's head work certainly does appear to have a wider squish band than the RB'd 69mm stock 216.8cc KDX220R head...






On a personal note, The Millennium 225 kit profile is roughly what I was hoping to create out of one of these two KDX220SR heads, and now while thinking about it, the 220SR head (with building a lathe fixture for '94+ 220 & 200H heads + some lathe work) is really perhaps better for my used somewhat unknown performing CV Tech (Canadian company, new owners and different name now) ported 70mm big bore cylinder as it would take very little in mods after making a fixture for a metal lathe's 4-jaw chuck in order to modify a 69mm 220SR head for my ported 70mm cylinder...

I began on a rant more suited to my own topic, so I've cut and paste the additional info on machining a 70mm big bore head over to my squish band head machining thread here:
viewtopic.php?p=229318#p229318

[Chopperpilot]

Cylinder and head is sent off! now back to swing arm and rear wheel bearings and shock rebuilding!

[billie_morini]

Cylinder and head is sent off! now back to swing arm and rear wheel bearings and shock rebuilding!

Chopper, This is good. Millennium replated ny KDX cylinder a few years ago. Per my request, they cleaned the KIPPS. You made ame request and I hope you find this to be a convenient time-saver. I also hope that once re-assembled, the engine fires right up. Mine fired up on 1st kick following top end rebuild.

[Chuck78]

I'm really eager to see what they have done to your cylinder when you get it back, so please post lots of photos! I'm especially curious if the base gasket surface looks like it has been turned down in a lathe to lower the port timing overall. If I pick up another spare KDX engine which I might do if I build a KX 125 hybrid, I would probably be looking for a 200 engine so that I can do this same kit. The 200 porting lends itself better to turning down the base gasket surface.
Curious about the head work making a 200 head into a 223. Ron black said that the 200 heads since they require less volume for the same compression ratio on a smaller 200 bore, have the spark plug mounting crash gasket surface face milled down lower than the 220, and he said that it would take a lot of work or possibly a 4mm gasketed spacer to bring the spark plug back up to the position it needs to be to have a 220 head volume after using a radius cutter on the lathe to open up the 200 head to the correct volume.
Of course Millennium could get around this somewhat by just telling you that it takes race fuel or 93 octane minimum. I doubt they would put out a kit that requires that though unless it was clearly stated, that's why I'm wondering what work they have done. They could weld up the spark plug area to raise it back up the necessary height and the machine it back down. I know Eric Gorr regularly welded up ports and head chambers in order to get the right shapes for his desired combos.

[billie_morini]

Chopperpilot,
I have a request on behalf of several interested forum members that are trying to solve a problem involving a specific KIPS system packing seal that we cannot find availability for.

Please contact Millennium and inquire what they will use / where they get replacements for the two packing seals for the left and right Power Valve Rods (e.g., microfiche part number 43049 in red circle). The objective is to find who is manufacturing this very same size packing seal, which is likely SKF Bearings & Seals, French Joint SAS Bearings and Seals, and the like.

Over here on this forum thread, viewtopic.php?p=229480#p229480, you can see forum members Kawibanga and Chuck78 are working hard to solve this problem. At present, however, we haven’t found a source for a packing seal having the same dimensions as the OEM aprt. Kawi is attempting to modify the OEM Power Valve Rods in order to use a different packing seal. This somewhat precise machining modification is not an ideal solution. Hopefully, Millennium has a good answer.

[Chopperpilot]

Hmm, sorry I'm not getting notifications for this thread. Just got my cylinder and head back from Millennium. Let me know what specific pictures you guys would like to see from what angles and I'll get them posted. I'll also ask Millennium about that and could take mine apart (they re-assembled the KIPS) to see what they did there.
I have a procedure question. It's currently 16 degrees here (+ though, so pretty nice) with snow and ice everywhere still. Actual motorcycle riding won't take place until May sometime. Should I avoid putting the top end back on until closer to time when I can run it through the break in procedure? So that any 2 cycle lube I put on stuff won't just drain down to the bottom? (I have the engine covered with a bag currently so I shouldn't have to worry about FOD in the engine)

[billie_morini]

Hi Chopper,
Kawibunga, Chuck78, and me think Millennium installs this seal on the KDX 220 right hand power valve rod:

008 X-RING --- McMaster-Carr 6540K118

This information may / may not be written on the x-ring installed in your newly serviced cylinder. Please inquire with Millennium as to whether they installed the aforementioned x-ring or a different one. THANK YOU.

As to your question, I'd assemble the engine at present. "Don't put off until tomorrow what you can accomplish today." Personally, I don't think I'd have the patience to wait, plus it's fun to wrench. An advantage do re-assembly now is that if you're missing something or break something, there will be adequate time to resolve such a problem.

Not all oil that you'll coat internal parts with will drain off. There will always be a teeny thin film. Say you assemble now and want to be sure later there is oil on moving parts. Prior to kickstarting in several months, squirt some oil down the spark plug hole and turn the engine over 4 to 6 times without the spark plug installed. You can squirt two stroke oil, motor oil, or fogging oil down the plug hole for this purpose.

[Chopperpilot]

I'll ask about that particular seal. Another conversation I had with Millennium I think you guys will find interesting..... So I was reading a thread here (I'm sure from Chuck78) about 200 vs 220 heads. How even though they are the same casting, the 220 head has a deeper machined combustion chamber and a spark plug hole that isn't machined as deep into the outside surface as a 200 head. All this to keep compression ratios in spec. Well I asked Millennium about how they cracked that particular nut (on the phone). The answer was they didn't (essentially). I brought up the higher (potential) compression from the larger bore and they guy I talked to just sorta responded about clearancing the squish band so the piston wouldn't hit the head and that the compression ratio was A OK. So again, let me know what pictures/measurements/etc you want of these parts for comparison. I haven't put in a sparkplug yet to see the protrusion into the chamber.
Although looking at my disassembly photo with the spark plug still installed (and I believe torqued, I don't think I messed with it at all before pulling the head) it looks like the spark plug end is recessed into the hole a bit from the chamber side and that machining the chamber somewhat wouldn't push the plug into the chamber. It looks in the photo like the plug electrode is close to being flush with the chamber roof. Man, I didn't really look at that closely before boxing it up, but the photo I have has a few plug hole threads remaining below the spark plug itself. Is that the normal setup for clearance on 2Ts?