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so i was changing my rear sprocket last night and noticed that i had about 8 spokes that were loose i was able to twist them back and forth about a half a turn. i assumed that they tightened like mtn bike spokes, so i got a wrench and started to tighten. i turned one about a half a turn and it would pop back to where it was after i take the wrench off. also i see that the bottom are bent into the hubs, so is the nipple suppose to turn independently of the spoke to tighten? the wheel does not appear out of true and seems solid with no wiggle. do i need to worry? i looked in the service manual and found nothing about the spokes. any answers?

"is the nipple suppose to turn independently of the spoke to tighten?"
YES, it should. Hold the spoke with a vise grip and see if that helps

All spokes should be tightened the same amount. There are special spoke torque wrenches to do this. In some manuals it explains the procedure, usually tighten every 3rd or 4th spoke. This will require 3 or 4 rotations to complete the process. Another way, more accurate, is to listen to the ring of the spoke. Pop a spoke with a simple spoke wrench and listen to the tone. Just like a guitar string. This way will be a fast way to hear if a spoke is way off, dull low tone if it's loose.

The spoke threads can corrode inside the wheel. Spray a penetrating fluid on each spot. Sometimes when you adjust the spoke it will pop as the threads move in the wheel. Make 1/4 turns at a time if you use a standard wrench and listen to the tone after each turn.

I've heard of people paying over a hunnert bux for the spoke torque wrench, tightening them all to a uniform setting, and then having a wheel shaped like a potato chip. I just use the tone method brad mentions. Running with spokes that loose is begging for a bent wheel and/or a broken hub.

Sometimes water is used to lubricate the bead when tires are mounted. This, and riding in water can allow rust to seize the spokes in the nipples.

So start with penetrating oil and give it time to penetrate. Vise grips tend to scar the spokes so try and grip them tight enough so they don't spin in the vise grip.

I broke spokes trying to tighten them and had to buy new spokes on this site. I still have some for a front. Be careful and patient but make sure you get them tightened. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I use the ping technique, and check the true of the wheel routinely. I have never had a wheel go so far out of true that I needed to true it, although I did bend one up that couldn't be trued. Ugly. Needed a new fork, axle, and triple. Lucky to be alive. The tree didn't move.

re: 'The spoke threads can corrode inside the wheel.'

And they DO, and yours ARE!

Good luck!

I've spent hours with penetrating oil and heat (prop torch) to loosen the nip/spoke threads. Successful about 1/2 the time.

Yes, you do need to worry, 'cuz a loose spoke means an unsupported rim. Well, 'worry' may be a bit strong..but all of your spokes should be correctly tightened and tight or else you will start breaking them.

You will save yourself a whole lot of time by buying a spoke set. If you cannot get a spoke loose without a whole lot of trouble, cut the thing out and replace it.

Keep in mind that most aftermarket spoke sets will have nipples too big for the KDX rim. Uh...do you have Excel rims? If you do, then drilling will not likely be required.

You CAN drill out the KDX rim to accept the more common-sized nips.

I always forget which way it is...but the 'pair' of spokes (the two that cross) can only be put in ONE WAY! It's one or the other FIRST. So...if you CUT an 'inside' spoke (leaving the 'outside') and the inside is the one that needs to go in first...well, you see the problem.

You will have to replace them in pairs if the ONE that is bad is not the SECOND one of the pair installed. ALWAYS use an anti-seize compound
on the nip base and the spoke threads (imo).

Capiche? Or ...clear as mud?

I have a whole set of Excel spokes and nips (VERY nicely designed..take one'a those 'speshul' wrenches to tighten yanno?). If I have a stuck spoke/nip..I spend a few minutes trying to loosen it up..then just cut it out!

I spent DAYS awhile back on my rear wheel. Soaked every spoke/nip...took them all out, put them back in with anti-seize. Torqued every one'a them to spec. ...THEN 'tinked' 'em**.

AND....put duct tape (only a few wrinkles!) around the inside of the rim to help keep moisture out.

Yes, I DO use water/soap when replacing tubes/tires. No lectures required about THAT!

**Oh....I don't know about the 'ping' method. I use the 'tink' method. That combined with the 'thunk' response will get you good to go!

Thanks!

**edit (again)**

I couldn't recall the name earlier...it's Buchanan. They have had good deals in the past..and have a good product:

http://www.buchananspokes.com/

thanks guys
guess i'll get on this tonight before my sunday.

lots of creek crossings around here, so that and age of wheels probably has them stuck.

too bad wheels are so expensive. would like to have a second set to put different tires and sprocket on. is the kdx wheel "specific" or do other models match up? i.e. where can i look for a second wheel?

I've fitted a couple of different wheels on my KDX. Pretty much i'd just look for a rear wheel with the same size bearings as the KDX unit. Its not a slam dunk by any means but generally if you can get the rear axle to fit then you can make the wheel work.

At one time I was hot on having a second rear wheel to mount my paddle tire on so I wouldn't have to swap tires when I went to the coast.

I bought a rear wheel off ebay. Count on replacing bearings if you get a wheel..cuz they are going to be shot.

AND..the wheel you get is going to have the same problems spoke-wise you have now.

Anyway..it's nice having a wheel (hub/spokes/rim) as an 'extra'.

I have always let the air out of my tires to tighten spokes. Does anybody find this to be a good idea?

I use buchanan spokes. I also remove my tire and adjust the spoke tension from the inside using an allen wrench; never the outside flats of the spoke nipple.

Letting the air out is a good idea if you don't tape up your nipples like CC suggests, or use a rim band. Otherwise the nipple might tear the tube.

Since spoke tension can be affected by corrosion or other areas of friction other than the tighness applied to the threads, a spoke torque wrench is a big waste of money. The ting/ping method, while testing the trueness of the wheel along the way, is the best way to go in my opinion.

skipro3 wrote:Since spoke tension can be affected by corrosion or other areas of friction other than the tighness applied to the threads, a spoke torque wrench is a big waste of money. The ting/ping method, while testing the trueness of the wheel along the way, is the best way to go in my opinion.

Thanks for sayng this. Certainly truing the wheel is a fine art when installing new spokes. If one could get a wheel perfect by torquing all to a spec, then it would be slick. But does a torque wrench even do that?

But I think most riders are like me, some spokes/nipples are corroded, some are new, and my wheel takes beating. Adjusting spokes and maintaining a trued wheel is not something I think a torque wrench will do, but I am guessing. I think tink is prett good as long as one is sensitive to a certain trueness. And I worry most about the lateral true.

Is Ski correct?

Uh...excuse me...but this is God.

I thought I'd intervene here to shed some light on the subject.

Of course ski is correct! I mean...who do you think you're talking to, anyway!!??

...sheesh.....

Thanks for your time. And now...back to your regular programming...



Wow! I didn't know HE read this board.....


Plebe cc here....

A spoke torque wrench is useless on any spoke/nipple connection if everything involved is not clean, smooth and lightly lubricated to boot!

Actually worse than useless..it's harmful!. No way you will end up with the spokes even CLOSE to as tight as they should be.