KDXRIDER.NET

Add my name to the list of people interested in the outcome of this.

Don't know about stronger magnets.... I guess it would increase the output but am worried about the affect on the ignition stator. That's why personally I am sticking to the lighting coil.

Adding core plates will increase the amperage of the lighting coil also. But, where in the world could we get extra core plates? As far as I know this is the only way....

Watts doesn't equate to amps as CC has pointed out... so we will be at a saturation point at about 70 watts with the current core plates. Also something to consider is using a 14v regulator... if one could be found... this will increase the lighting output and the lights could handle it...

Just kind of thinking out loud here so jump in if you have any tidbits!

ok... i am an electrician by trade... 20 years. i have seen a ton of sh*t fried by excess voltage. i am largely unfamiliar with the electricals on the kdx. is the voltage regulator gonna handle this? what are the long-term reliability issues? is this thing gonna take a big crap on me in the deep woods? is it gonna really shock me hard when i am touching the plug wire, in the rain, in my underpants??

need to get some of these going in the real world, test reliability, maybe someone can develope a niche market here.

interested in real-life results! keep this thread going pleez!

Re: 'Anybody thought of replacing the magnets with stronger ones to increase the wattage?'

Yep. Didn't think about it long, though. They're affixed to the inside of the FW..GLUED there. Such a piece isn't something you're going to find at your local hardware store..and I wouldn't want anything I glued spinning at thousands of RPM..let alone what even the 'lil KDX spins at.


Re: 'Adding core plates will increase the amperage of the lighting coil..'

Why?

Re: ' Also something to consider is using a 14v regulator... '

My lights are plenty bright enough..just not at low rpm. I don't see a different regulator helping that.


Re: 'is it gonna really shock me hard when i am touching the plug wire, in the rain, in my underpants??'

Not much more than it did the last time.


I don't know the specs of the VR. Considering that it handles well in excess of 100VAC now I'd say makes it pretty sturdy.

What's in there, anyway?

I think I'll hook a scope up to it..see what happens to the AC wave at VR time. I don't know if the tops just get lopped off, or what. I doubt it has the sense to run like an amplifier clipping circuit.

canyncarvr wrote:Re: 'Adding core plates will increase the amperage of the lighting coil..'

Why?

From all the countless hours of reading up on what make a stator tick... that's why!

Those core plates make up for something or else there would be only 1 right? Or why make plates at all... just use a solid hunk of carbon rich steel.

If I could explain it ... I would. My brain works funky... I read, comprehend and then flush. This way I am never held accountable for the trash I put out....

Here's another tidbit of information... amperage x volts = wattage (or am I off here?)

5 amps x 12 volts = 60 Watts of output


Anyway... I have already spent over $100 on this little science project so when I get my materials in we can start the fun!

I wasn't picking at you about it. Genuinely interested. I probably could count the hours I've spent reading about it lately (as opposed to them not being countable due to their numerousness), but I haven't found anything that explains core 'tech' to me.

Do they 'make up for something'? Probably...but what? Do they condense the magnetic field?

So..you have some wire..what are you going to do with it? Re-wrap an existing plate set? What metric are you going to use to measure the resultant output?

I know how to measure amperage draw... but not amperage output. How would you do it CC?

Lot of mis-information here it seems, lot of reply's going like this: I don't know about the "****", but I would GUESS it does this and that, bla bla bla which is then taken somewhat as fact.

I think this is a good thread and if we all work together we can build a better electrical system for our bikes. We will all be in 7th heaven! I would love to have two (2) blazing headlights on the front.

One thing I would not do is buy parts from the hardware store, but from an electrical supply place or something similar with excellent quality components designed for that purpose.

Also - to bump up the electrical output power without upgrading the rest of the electrical system is a problem waiting to happen. An analogy can be doubling the horse power of your car. Sure the engine is now twice the power, but now your stock transmission may fail soon, the driveline may break a few CV joints and you might need better tires to put that power to the ground. All these parts are built in relation to each other.

It seems that the KDX has a limited electrical system, with some built in reserve to handle a little more (capable of handling a few more watts). Just like all mechanical and electrical components are designed to handle more than the static load, the KDX is able to handle a little more with just a stator rewind.

I would hope someone who is going to upgrade the electrical system take a look at whole electrical and build it correctly, its a symbiotic relationship. Taking a shortcut is ok for a prototype as long as we know where/what the shortcuts have been taken.

I guess what I'm seeing here is the lack of Scientific Method- truth based on rigid and fixed technique.
heres what I'm talking about-

1. Forming a hypothesis: an arguable position or educated guess.
2. Operational concepts/definitions: How you define concepts so that they may be measured.
3. Identifying variables: something subject to change.(dependent variable - stator) The things we think will help us understand are called Independent variables (like education)
4. Testing: observation and established methods of investigation.
examples: experiments - time series - comparative studies - case studies
5. Generate theories - describe- explain - predict. example would be you rewound the stator with X ga wire, X inches, X wraps, used X glue, and ran the bike for X hours no failure, meter gave X power.

Like I said this is a good thread, but us just guessing about how it works is just going to waste somebody's money, and I'm guessing thats a bad thing.

just my 2 cents...

I will be the first to admit... I do not know enough about the coil itself. But I am willing to play Edison here or more appropriately Tesla. I ordered my wire from an electrical supply house and it is 17 ga enameled wire good up to 200c which is the best you can get. I also headed down a different path to get more output..... more of that to come since I don't want to throw it out there in case it is a moot point.

Really, the only concern I have is with the VR. Voltage it can handle but what about the amperage that will be produced? The VR may have to be upgraded to one from a bike that has a similar system. Not a big deal but may save headaches from the start if that is a know factor. I do believe the wire gauge can handle the load from what I know about the harness.


But, like I said... allot of what I have written is just thinking out loud trying to get conversation started with someone who does know more....

This LED tailight allows for my headlight to be very bright ... there is allot of manipulation that can be done. The brake light is also very bright...

Doing this and rewinding my lighting coil should allow for a very stable system... I am hoping anyway.

Re: ' I also headed down a different path to get more output..... '

Awww! C'Mon! We want more guessing about blah and blah!! Let us in on it!! It's not like anyone is going to run out to copy your 'spearmint. Not until YOU say it WORKS!!

No. 'We' don't know how it all works. To be fair (and clear), I don't know. Yes. We're mostly just fooling around with it all, because that's what we CAN do. I've looked a good bit for a simple definition/cause-and-effect of core plates in lighting coils. I've found exactly squat about it.

Whatever you have to say in the way of explanation of 'How Things Work' I'm sure would be appreciated. ...I would appreciate it.

I do think anyone messing with this circuit realizes it's only as strong as its weakest link. That's pretty straightforward.


Re: 'I know how to measure amperage draw... but not amperage output. How would you do it CC?'

As noted earlier (this thread I think..didn't check the first of it): An honest to goodness load center...a carbon pile akin to what is used to test batteries would work. That wouldn't be a cheap buy.

This would:



Found here!

That link isn't a 'buy it here' place...but you could find a similar product I'm sure a good number of places. Note that it comes in 10-1300W versions. Plenty enough to get the job done.

Hook one meter up to measure current, another to measure voltage...adjust the load until minimum required voltage output is obtained....check the current output. Mathematically figure your power output.

Easy peasy.

It would be simpler, too, to have a KDX rotor on a motor spindle that you could adjust the speed on. Again...too much trouble I suppose. Consider how nice it would be to simply flip a switch to test a given coil as opposed to installing the whole mess on your bike and then having to RUN the bike to see what's what.

If the coil is installed...you could use the above wire-wound resistor to load the regulator. Same thing..increase load until minimum voltage is reached..measure the current.

Re: 'Voltage it can handle but what about the amperage that will be produced?'

Voltage IS the issue, current is not (yes...I would GUESS and blah blah blah). The voltage is applied TO the VR...but current does not go THRU it. As small a device as it is, it is NOT a pseudo-sine generator. THAT would have current source limitations. It's a clipper or a clamp, and as such...load current does not go THRU it. Actually, the higher the load on the system, the less current it has to deal with. At 'max', all of the current is going thru the loads on the system (lights...grip heat?..), none is going thru the regulator (notwithstanding inherent losses in the regulator).


Oh...the above pictured adjustable wire-wound used as a tester is NOT a '..guess and blah blah.' It's fact. It will work. Perfectly. Just fine.

Wunderbar, even.

Well that is interesting.... If you go to Parts-Express.com and pull up their Voltage Regulators, you will notice they are good for say 18V but only so many amps....

I did.

Go there, I mean.

An input of 'voltage regulator' gets you a bunch of discrete devices such as 78xx and 79xx series regulators.

DC regulators. They DO pass current. They ARE rated at some current maximum.

Not related to an AC regulator that is working in a shunt or clip capacity.

Figure this: It's your job to 'regulate' every truckload of dirt past your gate. Every truckload is to be 5yds. of dirt. A truck comes by..it has 5yds. plus two shovelsful. You remove the two shovelsful.

There is no need for you to carry, deal with, or unload the 5yd. part. It just passes you by.

THAT is you regulating the truckloads.


Figure this: Those same truckloads DUMP their loads at your feet. It's your job to shovel exactly 5yds. from each truck onto a conveyor that moves the dirt to another place. The same truck comes in..you have to shovel every yard of dirt up to the designated 5yd. volume, and toss the extra two shovelsful.

In that case...that 5yds. is all going through you. YOU have to do the work of moving it THRU your 'gate' to the conveyor. That's work!

Please...no comments about how a truckload of dirt being shoveled is more like voltage than current. I'm not using it as an example of that...just the different between going 'thru' and going 'by'.

Okey dokey?

**edit**
Curious...how many readers have actually moved five yards of dirt using a shovel and a wheelbarrow?

Got any tea? I'm tired now....

I've got some Black Tea..s

Where the heck do you two work that you can write so many posts in such a short time?
Keep it coming!

-Erik

NewMexico505 wrote:Where the heck do you two work that you can write so many posts in such a short time?
Keep it coming!

-Erik

Work?

BTW...I do understand the above tapped resistor can't be some 10MOhm job. A couple ohms would probably do...and keep in mind that the listed power rating is the entire unit..not 10% of it.

..hence the carbon pile idea.

er... I don't presently...

From RickyStator:

Yes, the electrex junk is always overated. we usually wind those for a good 75 watts. it will run it good at the low speeds. i could wind them for the 100 watts but it will go up and down with the rpm pretty bad.



I had asked:

Folks:


KDX lighting coils are getting hard to find. Do you folks have anything to do with them anymore? At least, I think you used to offer them.


Electrex coils used to be advertised as 65-70W output. That was a VERY optimistic number. A number of riders on kdxrider.net are looking for a lighting upgrade. Maybe you folks have a minimum order quantity that would get you interested in rewinding/making some up?


Of course...the more power, the better. There is a rumour of a guy that used to wind KDX stators that were good for 100W using some mo-jo'd plate setup.


It's all FM to me!


So...what's available for us KDX die-hards? If any of it is doable, I'm sure both the 'A/H' riders (220/200s..the same coil for those models) and some 'E' riders (older 200s) would be interested.

So... is he going to show us how to do it then?