Some electrical help please

[gertie6car]

Hi Guys,

well the bike (1990 kdx 200 E2) is running really well after the rebuild and I now need to sort out the wiring so I can put it through the MOT test (road worthy test in the UK).

In the UK we can ride certain trails if the bike is road legal, insured and yes, taxed! We can get a daylight only test but can only use the bike (on the road and trail) from sunrise to dusk. If you get this type of test you are not allowed to have any lights on at all or they have to be taped up to make them inoperable - (including the switch gear). I need to be able to ride to the trails I want to use and want to get the full test with lights.

The current state of play is as follows

Front head lamp bulb is 12V 20/20 W so not standard and only works on one of the following (not sure which)main beam/dipped.

Rear tail light working, but brake lights are not. Previous owner had fitted banjo bolts with pressure switches incorporated into them and spliced them into the loom to provide a feed to the brake light when brakes were applied. Switches work, but no brake light shows when pedal/lever used.

Handlebars have been fitted with an after market switch gear which has switches for indicator (not fitted/connected) main beam/dipped beam/horn , parking light etc.

Regulator is fitted and the feeds to the brake switches are taken off the main red wire fed by it.

I have a copy of the original wiring diagram but that seems different (in respect of lighting at least) to whats on the bike. The obvious differences being the diagram shows only one circuit to the head lamp not seperate main/dipped circuit and the rear light has three wires running to it. These are not shown.

12v horn fitted but does not work.

It seems like lots of connectors and wires seem to have been added to the original loom. Most seem to be associated with the brake light feed and rear light supply but there are a pair of wires tucked behind the right hand side frame down tube that appear to be running to a rectangular rubber boot mounted just above the brake fluid cylinder. The boot does not come off easily and appears to have a switch inside. Can anyone tell me what this is/does?

Help would be very much appreciated!

Cheers

ps I have a multimeter but.......

I have a mental block when it comes to electrics, I would really appreciate it if someone could talk me through how to get them sorted?

[m0rie]

We can help you get it sorted out. It would be helpful if you could take a couple of pictures and maybe draw out a diagram of how its currently wired. We should be able to help you figure out whats wrong from that info.

[canyncarvr]

Re: 'Front head lamp bulb is 12V 20/20 W so not standard and only works on one of the following (not sure which)main beam/dipped.'

I don't know that is or is not 'standard' on your bike. If only one filament works, it's likely the other filament is broken. Check them with a meter. Your bulb will likely have two nubbins on the bottom, each goes to a separate filament. The case of the bulb will be ground, probably. That will be true if there are indeed only two nubbins on the bottom of a two-filament bulb.

Re: 'but no brake light shows when pedal/lever used.'

Given all the pressure switches work as you indicated, the first place to look is the filament on THAT bulb, too.

That and the sockets of both bulbs. Maybe be broken, dirty, corroded.

Re: 'mounted just above the brake fluid cylinder.'

But not connected to it in any way? If there is a switch in that boot, it obviously was meant to be actuated (touched) in some way. Maybe that was the first edition of brake light..a physically activated switch. Version two is the pressure switches you mention.

[gertie6car]

Hi guys,

thanks for the responses! I spent a bit of time today on the bike and have checked the wiring out and drawn a very bad diagram, will scan and post if I can work out how to attach it here!

What I have worked out so far ( i think!) is the following

the rubber bag/boot thing near the brake fluid reservoir houses a switch, it appears to be home made (the bag) and its function is to disable the brake circuit, this bike was raced in enduro by a local expert. I assume he wanted to be able to switch off the rear brake lights while in competition?

The spare black wire is the feed to the pressure switches fitted to the front and rear brake master cylinders. It is currently disconnected - probably why the brake light does not come on!!

Checked the bulbs, both the filaments in the front and rear bulbs work so I am intending checking out tomorrow when I connect a feed.

Carb now flooding, over spill running out the carb tubes if the engine is killed and the fuel tap left open!

Will post some pics/diagram tomorrow, how do I attach pics?!

In the meantime I would like to wish all on kdx rider all the best, especially all those who have assisted over the past months getting this bike running as it should.

Cheers guys, have a good one!!

gert

[canyncarvr]

Re: Will post some pics/diagram tomorrow, how do I attach pics?!

Either use the buttons above the 'post reply' box or type them yourself; basically [img]url of the pic[/img].

Obviously (hopefully) that url has to be an address that is ACCESSIBLE on the web. A link along the line of: [img]C:!Pics..posted..various5_06 at Jerrysskipro under his bike__again[/img] (a pic maybe on the computer I'm typing this on) isn't going to work because that file is NOT accessible on the web. The pic has to be 'hosted' by something/somebody.

Any pic-posting site will do..photobucket, smugmug..lots of 'em.

Or..notice the 'Gallery' button at the top of this forum page? You can upload your pics to your gallery link to them from a post.

There may be a tutorial on pic posting somewhere...I don't know offhand where it might be.

Re: 'Carb now flooding, over spill running out the carb tubes if the engine is killed and the fuel tap left open'

Common problem:

1. Incorrect float level
2. Float movement hindered..them rubbing on something inside the carb
3. Bad float valve needle.
4. Crud on the float needle valve seat.
5. Everything above is ok, but the kickstand is so wonky the bike is leaning over way too much.

1. Check it. Set to at least spec..adding a couple mm to the drop is fine.
2. While you're float level checking, ensure the float arms aren't bent or tweaked. Exercise care on reassy to NOT tweak'm during.
3. Look at it. Any sign of wear (marks, indentations) means it's bad. Replace it.
4. Burnish that seat. Use a strip of wet-n-dry (the black stuff) wrapped over a cotton swab, moisten in alcohol, lightly press against the seat while twisting the swab IN the seat.
5. Fix it.

[gertie6car]

Hi,

hope the link works!

http://s429.photobucket.com/albums/qq14/Andrew1Clarke/

let me know!

nearly midnight, gotta go!!

have a good one!!

[canyncarvr]

Yep. The link works.

But...I don't know what's going to be resolved by looking at a bunch of wires connected together.

I can see on the last pic that it is an 1157 (twin filament) bulb. Some brake setups run a single filament with the taillight going through a resistor, the so-called 'brake' just being the bypass of that resistor.

That doesn't generally give you the change/difference in appearance a twin filament bulb will.

Other than that, I dunno....

As far as testing stuff, you can hook a battery or battery charger up to the light system to test what works, what don't. You won't need to have the engine running for that..and you won't hurt anything.

Do disconnect the lighting coil from the 'loom' for such testing. You don't want battery power running throught the coil.

[gertie6car]

Thanks for the response CC.
I agree re the wiring pic! I tend to take pics before I touch anything just so I know where it all goes if I take anything apart. My memory is not what it was!!

The loom is a bit of a mess and some of those connections are not the best but I have checked continuity through them so will leave them as they are until I have sorted the problem. I will them probably replace the suspect ones and rebundle/wrap the loom.

I have drawn out a circuit diagram for what is actually on the bike but it needs tidying up before I can post. Having drawn the circuit I have now worked out what the switch does (the one in the rubber boot) and that the brake circuit (banjo pressure switches) do not have any electrical feed. I intend to hook one up and see whats shat. Fingers crossed that should sort the brake light, then it will be back to the switch gear on the bars to check out whats what for the headlamp feeds.

I will let you know how I get on!

Cheers for the help!

Gert

[gertie6car]

Hi,
drew the wiring diagram up and here is a link to it - hope you can see it!

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq14 ... 109TRC.jpg

I have added the white/red cable to feed the brake circuit and will fire the bike up and check out if it all works!

Anyone ever fitted indicators to a KDX? - just joking!!

Gert

[canyncarvr]

Does this bike have a battery..or everything in the diagram is what there is? Is the power system DC or AC (US bikes are AC regulated, not rectified).

'Indicators' meaning blinkers? All this stuff is going to take a considerably lot of power...a flasher relay 'fer example. Hope your lighting coil can handle it..say with the brakes on, headlight on 'hi'....and making a left turn. That's going to be iffy, I'd guess.

**edit**Just as easy to click on your link as waste Inda's bandwidth putting it here...I took it off.**


THAT is a VERY nice schiz you made, there. Looks great!!

I'd still test the whole mess with a battery charger or small battery...the charger preferred as it will have short circuit protection. Disconnect the yellow to the lighting coil, hook up your charger to the whole system..you will have solid power to aid any troubleshooting/fixing that needs doin'.

I don't know about the handlebar switch. The wires as shown do what they're supposed to, so I assume the switch does what it is supposed to do as drawn? It's a simple on/off switch, or there are different positions for different things?

Good job!!

[gertie6car]

All that is on the bike is in the diagram.

I believe the system is regulated AC, the "regulator" I refer to is the finned black box attached to the top of the airfilter cover with a black/yellow and brown wire coming out of it. The multimeter I used worked on AC setting so I guess that confirms it is AC?

Having taken the time to draw out the circuit diagram it became easier to understand what had been done to the wiring loom by the previous owners, it was a pain to check the continuity of each wire in the loom but well worth it in the long run. I would also like to think it might also be of use to someone else with a similar bike to mine.

I have added a feed to the brake circuit, fired the bike up and BINGO! the lights all work. Main and dipped at the front, tail and brake (operated when the pressure switches in the banjo bolts on the front and rear master cylinders are activated). Brake light is pretty bright!! Light levels are good and seem largely independent of engine revs.

I have got some good quality connectors and will over the next few days replace the dodgy connectors and tidy up the wiring, maybe replace some of it to get continuity of colour (color to you guys!).

I think I will use a separate battery powered (9V) cycle type horn, probably a megahorn type from a local cycle shop, the MOT test I need to pass states the horn must be capable of being operated with the engine off so not many options on that front but it will reduce the load on the main system so that will help.

Indicators are indeed "blinkers", and I take your point re the load they may create. You may recall I had real difficulty trying to start the engine on this bike after I did a full rebuild on it (bought it as a non runner with cracked crank cases around the kick start!). The problem turned out to be the stator and the one in the bike came off the engine I cannibalized for the cases. I am thinking of getting the old stator rewound and have read some of the posts on here about increasing the number of windings to increase overall output. I wonder if that would help power the blinkers?

The handlebar switch I put in the drawing just shows the connections I found, there are several (quite laterally) which are completely unconnected. The switch itself has a lights on and off switch, horn button, high low and park light switch but I did not know how to show it correctly in the diagram.

The switch I found in the rubber boot works a treat and switches off the brake light circuit.

Now I have got to sort out the flooding carb and I can get it to test!!!!

Already thinking about head and carb mods!!

Cheers

Gert

[canyncarvr]

Re: 'The multimeter I used worked on AC setting so I guess that confirms it is AC?'

Yep. It could be really REALLY bad DC I guess.


Re: ' I wonder if that would help power the blinkers?'

'More' will always help..it's just that it needs to help enough to matter.

If you get around to it, I'd like to see a pic of one'a those pressure-switch banjo connectors on your braks.

Thanks!

[gertie6car]

Hi CC,

I got mine in the uk (had to replace one) but I have searched the web and found a supplier a bit nearer to you!

They come in both imperial (inch) and metric. The metric sizes are M10 X 1.25 and M10 X 1.0. Kawasaki generally use 1.25 but there were some rear cylinders fitted with 1.00. Check to be sure what you have!

I hope the link below is of interest

http://www.oppracing.com/images/4620-ni ... h/#image_1

Cheers

Gert

[canyncarvr]

Hhhmmm...not what I was expecting.

I googled 'banjo bolt pressure switch' and not gotten much of anything.

I'm misunderstanding something. The pic linked above has to screw into a 'T'? I'm considering a 'banjo' fitting to be like what is on the end of a brake line ('cuz that's what they're called...'cuz they look like a banjo!)

The pic looks to me like a regular, one each pressure switch (safe for brake fluid contact, 'natch) that screws into some plumbing.

[Mr. Wibbens]

The banjo bolt just looks like any other bolt except it has a hole for the fluid

You replace the bolt with the switch

http://images.google.com/images?q=banjo ... a=N&tab=wi

[gertie6car]

You got it Mr Wibbens! spot on! they work a treat real sensive used a lot in the uk on modified street bikes.

[canyncarvr]

Yeah. I understand how it works. It don't look like much of a banjo.

Maybe this...used WITH banjos...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2368/242 ... 99.jpg?v=0

I thought they might be a bit more compact, is all.

[Mr. Wibbens]

The bolt not sposed to look like a banjo, it's the fitting

But you knew that already

[canyncarvr]

I do now. Actually, I thought it would be something that looked like a banjo fitting that had a switch in it. A nano switch maybe..not some big honkin' thing that looks like it could used as a starter relay bypass on a 24V Cummins.

Learn sumthin' everyday.

[gertie6car]

The real disadvantage with these switches is the wiring is prone to damage as it exits the the switch. It is VERY exposed, CC's link shows just how vulnerable they are on dirt bike front brakes.

I have just bought a new switch for my front brake (KX 125 front end) as the old switch got damaged where the wires exited the switch. I have turned up a small alloy collar with holes drilled in the side so the wires can exit at 90 degrees to the end of the switch rather than straight out. Once I have the switch orientation sorted I will then turn the collar to get the best exit point for the wires then I will fill the inside of the collar with either epoxy or rtv to hold (and hopefully protect) the wires in place. I will have to make a cut out in the acerbis hand guards that are fitted but at least I should be able to run the cable down onto the bar more neatly and hopefully out of harms way. Will post a pic when done.