Clutch Poblems

[KDXPhoneDude]

I went riding last weekend with Radonc73 and his brothers.
I have never had a problem with my bike, but I havn't realy ridden it that much. We were going up a small hill and right at the top, my bike just stopped, like you had pulled in the clutch or the chain fell off.
The clutch lever was sloppy like the cable had broken or somthing. well, we layed it over and pulled the clutch cover off to look at it. It looked fine except that we noticed that the plates were not tight.
Got back to camp and I called it a weekend.

I had it apart according to the service manual and for the life of me I can't get the clutch hub nut off. So I said screw it and i would ask here if I was doing something wrong.
I put it back together and now i have a good feeling clutch lever, like it is disingaging now, however i cant spin the back tire with it in gear. It wants to turn the motor over even with the lever pulled in.

When I put the springs and their bolts back on I pulled on the part it threads into and it moved towards me so I tightened them up untill the springs bottomed out and just snugged them as I don't have my torque wrench here at my house.

Could the clutch springs have loosened up or maybe just worn beyond
usefull service? I don't want to even start it untill I get this figured out.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks Guys!!

[fuzzy]

Use an impact wrench to get the nut off

[KDXPhoneDude]

It won't do it.
But I did try when the clutch was disengaged.
It engages now ( I think) so maybe try it again?

[fuzzy]

You do need something to hold the basket from turning....I usually just wedge a shop rag in there.

[KDXPhoneDude]

do you think it would make a difference because the clutch was disengaged?

[Jeb]

Put it in a high gear, hit it with the impact.

You'll find that when you go to retorque it when you reinstall that it's not nearly as tight as when you have to remove it the first time. Must be time, heat, etc.

[fuzzy]

You definitely don't want the lever trying to 'disengage' the clutch when removing, whether it be via the cable or otherwise...

[canyncarvr]

Re: 'When I put the springs and their bolts back on I pulled on the part it threads into and it moved towards me..'

You're saying that after you had it together it still moved around?

Has this been apart before?

The clutch pack should never be 'loose' unless the springs are compressed (spring tension removed from the pack itself). IF that happens, SOMEthing is preventing free movement of the plates within the pack.

Are the basket fingers smooth where the friction plates hit them?

Re: '...because the clutch was disengaged?'

Refrain from using that terminology unless it is agreed to by everyone what it is you are saying. Different folks use the terms 'engaged' and 'disengaged' to mean the same thing sometimes. To some, the use of 'engaged' means the crank is connected to the transmission through the clutch...to some 'engaged' means the clutch is activated and the crank is NOT connected to the transmission.

It's kind'a like RH-zip and LH-zip sleeping bags. The different terms can be used to describe the same sleeping bag..and each person using their particular term is sure they are correct and it's the other guy that's wrong.

[KDXPhoneDude]

Re: "You're saying that after you had it together it still moved around?"

No. What I'm saying is that I pulled the cover off of it and the plates had no tension at all. You could wiggle them and when I put the springs back in and tightened them up (remember no torque wrench yet), it all seems fine.
The basket looks practically new i.e no grooves on the fingers.

I'm at a loss as to why it broke down and am afraid to go out again if I don't know what was wrong in the first place.

I was thinking the springs lost tension (the bolts that hold the springs in place came loose).

I have never had it apart before but the P.O. said He put a new clutch in. That was about 18 mo's ago and not many hours on it.

[canyncarvr]

No. What I'm saying is that I pulled the cover off of it and the plates had no tension at all.

Something is wrong..and certainly needs to be fixed.

Do you have a service manual? Take note there are TWO washers used on reassembly..one between the two clutch parts (hub and basket) and one UNDER the assembly. One or the other of those washers is commonly left out on reassembly. Check to ensure they are present in the correct locations.

The basket DOES have to come off to get to the washer UNDER the basket.

The bolts might have come loose. WERE they loose? In order for the clutchpack to be loose as you describe there would have to be NO tension on the springs...and that means the bolts would've had to be about ready to fall out. Probably would be scraping the clutch cover at that point.

Check the KIPS governor rod. Make sure the pin at the bottom has not been bent/broken due to damage caused by incorrect disassembly. The nut at the top of that shaft is LHT. Folks force it the wrong way trying to take it off and bad things happen.

Watch those hub bolts without a torque wrench. They are tightened to diddle. Speaking of which...check the hub bolt bosses to make sure they were not every OVERtightened and cracked. THAT would get you the loose clutchpack you experienced.

I'm not with my manual right now...but it's something like 86in/lb. on those clutch bolts. Verify that before you use that number. Someone with a manual handy, please correct it if it's wrong?

Thanks.

[KarlP]

On one of my old XR's the bolts through the springs did indeed come loose. My fault.

It looks like you have put it all back together and it feels O.K. now through the lever?

Not trying to make you doubt yourself, but there is a correct order for all the parts. Did you consult a manual or diagram? That washer under the clutch pack in the basket usually takes me three tries to get in place and there is a spring ring at the top of the pack that I've put in upside down.

Maybe the PO just forgot to tighten those bolts through the springs? They don't go very tight anyway. Consult a manual for the torque.

Don't be scared, ride it around. If it is not put together right you'll know it.

[KDXPhoneDude]

Thanks KarlP. It does feel ok through the lever now.
I thought at first it was the spring ring but maybe not.

I am going to tear it down this weekend if I can get the nut off the basket.
Inspect, put it back together,fill 'er with oil and test ride.

Oh yeah, I do have a service manual.

I hope the P.O. did not tighten the spring bolts enough.That's a simple fix.

If you knew what we went through to get it out of the woods, you would appreciate my concern about figuring out what went wrong.

[canyncarvr]

If you knew what we went through to get it out of the woods, you would appreciate my concern about figuring out what went wrong.

Hence my point of view..which is find out what the problem is and get it fixed...THEN go riding.

Take a tow strap with 'ya!!

[radonc73]

Tow strap didn't help for the first couple of hills. I know what you went through, but it was all good at the end.
I cann't remember who said it but if you thread some thin rope through the plug hole to stop the piston from reaching TDC to get the nut off.
I hope it is something simple and if this ever happens again we will all know where to start. I had never seen anything like that before.

[kdxquebec]

Came across this thread...great info here.Do somebody know the socket size to use to remove the clutch hub nut?

Is it 22mm? or 23mm? Cauz I need to buy one (socket) and 21mm do not work.

THX

[fuzzy]

rope through the plug hole to stop the piston from reaching TDC to get the nut off.

....Never use this method unless absolutely necessary(like a non-trans application). Puts unecessary stress on the crank pins/bearings, rod/bearings, etc. Plenty of other stuff to grab a hold of...I don't even recommend the 'put it in gear' technique. Want to hold it at the basket. Never had one I couldn't get off by simply wedging a rag in there. Then put in gear, and rotate backwards to get the rag out. Rag is soft!

[KDXPhoneDude]

the clutch hub nut is 22 mm.

[kdxquebec]

Thanks a ton!