Octane Booster

[fuzzy]

That was a Fredette done port job, correct?

Can anyone speak to their results of a 'mo better everywhere' port job from EG where their cyl stayed 200cc? I seem to remeber on 'the other site' that some folks sucessfully had this mod performed, and retained pump-gas-ability....It makes since that with huge bore increase(ala 225) that the head, etc just can't be modded enough to run lower octane fuel. Maybe a billet 225 head could fix this issue??

It's been my experience that just about every engine can use some going over after it leaves the factory....'Blueprinting' so to speak. I would think a mild or mo-better port-job from EG is basically just clean-up w/ only slight mods specific to power delivery...I would guess Fredette's is the opposite. Note 'guess' He's not only an 'on the pipe' rider, but not an engine builder....IMHO

EG's getting my WR cyl at some point where I'll ask for 'mo tractability,' and 'pump gas only.' I'll be curious to see what I end up with. At the worst it seems I could run some tolulene. I've always got plenty of race gas (C12/14) around, but I'd rather not have the WR guzzle it down...

I've also been thiking seriously about moving the bikes over to methanol. I use it in my karts, and can get drums for $90 which is far cheaper than gas right now...

[canyncarvr]

It is Fredette ported.

Methanol runs about 1/2 the BTUs of gasoline, don't it?

[motorider200]

I have the EG's 225 mod and am on my second cylinder from him (I toasted my first one pics in the gallery). I requested to run on pump gas with the mo better porting. On the first cylinder I ended up having to use a 50/50 pump and 110 race gas mixture do to detonation. With the second cylinder it runs fine on pump and it stronger than the original one the porting looked different on the two cylinders as far as I could tell the porting looked stock on the second one. The same head was used with both of them.

[canyncarvr]

BTW...in regard to octane boosting and why worry about it:

Click HERE.

[dave04kdx]

CC:

I got the Toluene at a local Ace harware store. Its pricey stuff, $10.99 a gal + Uncle Sam's share. No luck in finding 5 gal cans locally. I'll have to check in Phoenix.

Our local Home Depot didnt have any Toluene, but did carry Xylene for about 2 bucks a gal less. Ron mentioned the Xylene in his last post. I wonder if the Xylene works as well as Toluene?

I did notice one negative about the Tuluene mixed fuel. I got a nasty head rush when I got a whiff of the Chevelle exhaust. There goes more brain cells..

[canyncarvr]

Last time I ran my Duster through the I&M (local name of the smog station) stall, I was running 100% methanol!

That's a smell those folks probably aren't too used to.


THAT was funny!!

Uncle Sam's share? There should not have been any fuel tax on it. It's for painting fer crine out loud!!

I don't talk of brain cells in the plural form anymore. No sense making stuff up.

[fuzzy]

Methanol runs about 1/2 the BTUs of gasoline, don't it?

Yep, but with double the 'effective' octane. This theoretically allows double the compression. Getting the most out of it w/ a bike would pretty much require ruining the engine for gasoline use, but you don't have to 'get the most out of it.' An alky carb on a stock motor (and advanced timing) will run great w/ incredible response, and produce more power....At this point my knowledge of fuels falls short as to why

[skipro3]

Caution using alcohol pump blended fuels. Usually 10% alcohol is added at the pump to increase the oxygen of the fuel resulting in a 30% decrease in harmful emmisions. (Latest American Motorcyclist Mag from the AMA). The extra oxygen will affect jetting on a two stroke. If you are lean now, this stuff could send it over the top.

[canyncarvr]

Fuzzy runs exotic fuels on a regular basis in all sorts of hotrod stuff. He's got all that stuff handled!

Which is NOT to say oxygenated fuels don't suck!

[Mark W]

Octane ratings can be very easily calculated by simple averaging.

Toluene is 114 octane. So use this formula to figure what octane you get:

( Gallons of gas * Octane of gas ) + ( Gallons of toluene * 114 )
___________________________________________________
Total Gallons Mixed

This gives the octane of the mixture after you add toluene.

Another area to find toluene cheap would be an auto jobber store. Find a place where they sell automotive paint to body shops and you will find cheaper toluene - something close to $4-5/gallon in a 5 gallon jug.

If I am not mistaken (and I could be), toluene may now be classified by the government as something that requires special paperwork for anyone purchasing amounts over a specified limit. Thank you meth makers for this one.

Mark W

[fuzzy]

CC...LOL! What, you guys don't have some nitromethane and nitroethane laying around? Nitroethane/gas would stand alone for all your power enhancement needs...Just plan on doing a top-end after two rides.

Yeah we got that 10% ethanol crap here in IL. It will run different then 'straight' gas, but it's all we have and seems to run pretty consistent. That being said, jetting hasn't been that great of an issue. Now jet clean w/ this stuff, and then use non-tree hugger gas will cause problems and vice-versa.

Was a real bugger in my 'stock' 100cc kart class that techs fuel. Alky in your gas is a no-no. Ended up having to run race gas, which in this case actually yields less power than 93. It was at this point I wondered why alky in your gas is illegal. I thought it made less power? Turns out I was wrong. Same engine, on a dyno, using EGT to dial jetting consistently, one pull w/ VP red 18.5hp, one pull w/ clean 93 from KY 20hp, one pull w/ IL 93 21.5hp and it will run cooler which can also give an advantage in a long race...Air-cooled 2-cycle.

The whole tolulene deal is very interesting. I'm going to try 87 boosted w/ it this weekend w/ inda.

Again, not a chemist so I'm pretty much stupid when it comes to this, but I know what works Hillbilly R&D: Try this, ok try this, then this, oops....rebuild motor, try this, now this, ok that's the ticket...LOL

[dave04kdx]

Again, not a chemist so I'm pretty much stupid when it comes to this, but I know what works Hillbilly R&D: Try this, ok try this, then this, oops....rebuild motor, try this, now this, ok that's the ticket...LOL

Re: Hillbilly R&D

Reminded me of one of the funniest things I have ever seen. A guy that lived in the same apartments as me in the early 80's had a 60's something Galaxie 500. The fuel pump went out and he stripped the bolts trying to remove the pump. Solution: Strap a gas tank to the roof the the car, run a hose to the carb, put a rag in the filler neck of the tank and drive the car for another year!! True story

[KDXGarage]

LOL! I hope you didn't park close to him.

[fuzzy]

OMG!!!!! At least I'm an ejamacated hillbilly!

If you have a min to kill here's a long, but very intersting article on fuel blending I just found....The bit on Tolulene is very interesting. It seems tolulene is the main ingredient in gasoline...

http://www.foxvalleykart.com/fuel1.html

Specifically page 7...

[canyncarvr]

Thanks for the link, Fuzzy.

Although, I almost stopped reading it when the author said detonation was the same thing as pre-ignition.

I thought, 'This guy is a boob.'

But...in installment three, he says:

In the first installment (November '94) 1 referred to pre-ignition as another term for detonation. Boy did I hear about that! Let me make this very clear. While they are similar in some respects, in many important ways, detonation and pre-ignition are very different.

Yes indeedy they are.


BTW (regarding detonation):

The result is the collision of two independent flame fronts.

That's not true, either.......Doesn't really MATTER..but in fact it isn't so. The pressure wave is the problem..and it's considerably ahead of the flame front(s).

That point was made clear..complete with pictures with drawings and arrows on the back of each one (I never said this was a quote ;)... on some other recent link (that excapes my mind at this time).

[skipro3]

O.K. Arlo, were those glossy black and whites?

That site was linked in some post here, I read it too. I think it described how squishband design can aid in combating the pressure wave of detonation. Had to deal with the speed of sound vs the speed of combustion; the squish band will prevent burn at the rim of the piston (a relatively large volume area of the overall piston crown) and cool the head, while increasing compression.

I probably got it all wrong, but in my mind, it made sense.

[canyncarvr]

Arlo here:

No...they was COLOR(colour?) glossies! Twenty-seven of 'em!!

...get it?

(yeah...sometimes I just KILL myself!)

[Indawoods]

and 8"x10"'s with circles and arrows on the back of each one....

[canyncarvr]

On a serious note...

It's page six...and he says (regarding toluene):

Conclusion: This one's a red herring.

Really!

Whadd'ya think, Dave? My gallon is 'on order' from a local paint shop. ($8.95 per)

...well, that (the quote) was @ 2% solution (I think)...but he doesn't say anything about the 10% mix.

..does he? What am I missing (again)? There is a graph, but no write-up on 10%.

Wassup?

[dave04kdx]

CC:

I haven’t had time to read the article thoroughly; I plan on carefully reading it this weekend. I know that the approximate 10 percent mix that I am running has made a HUGE difference in my bike. I am cynic when it comes to go fast juice and magic lotions for bikes, cars etc. This stuff works! The low end torque is good and throttle response is snappy, crisp. It seems almost too good to be true.