Eeek !!! Grooves in my clutch basket !!!

[AZRickD]

Long overdue for an oil change and a sticky clutch (with clutch in it is difficult to kick-start, and it jumps a bit when shifted from N to 1st), I decided to pull things apart and give it a looksee --



Pretty ugly. Some have said that even this can be filed or emoried down. That might do for a short-term fix but I think it's time for a new basket and clutch kit (likely the original unit, says Quail Chaser).

So, what are my options? OEM from Kawa$$aki, or from Fredette? How much would it cost? Any tricks to grinding down and punching out the pins that hold the gear to the basket if I go with an aftermarket (I'm told the OEM set comes with a new gear)?

Thanks,

Rick

[Indawoods]

Go OEM.... or else you are in for a ride.

[AZRickD]

What's the downside to using something, that maybe Fredette would endorse (purely speculating, now)?

What's the OEM cost? $60 for the clutches and $200 for the basket?

Rick

[jafo]

It's a chore, but depending on how deep the grooves are they can be filed down smooth. I've done this numerous times on several different bikes I've bought with good luck. It'll help you get alittle more life out of the basket.

Jon.

[Indawoods]

Fuzzy knows the drawbacks of using a aftermarket basket. First is removing and attaching the gear. He has been through several remounts due to bad design. Nothing like getting the whole thing together just to kick it once and the kicker won't engage again because the gear has fallen off of the basket.

[AZRickD]

I took a fine-bastard file and took a dozen, light strokes to each surface. I filed it just until the grooves turned into mere discoloration and I could feel no edges to the touch. Not much to it. Then I hosed it down with brake cleaner a few times to get rid of the filings. No need to have that in there after a fresh oil change.

Other than slipping (which I'm not getting) is there any other clue to when to change the actual clutch plates (which I hope to save for another time)?

Now I have to put it back together the right way the first time through.

Hmmm, where did I put that KDX manual....

Rick

[quailchaser]

Those notches aren't that bad...atleast what's pictured. Assuming the other "fingers" are in similar condition, you should be fine filing them.

Unless your clutch is obviously worn, your going to have to mic. out the steels and the fibers and check your measurements against the specs. in the manual.

You only have two choices on the clutch basket.

OEM--which comes with the gear attached (plug and play)
Hinson--No longer manufactured, but, Fredette still has a few. Must grind off gear and re-attach.

You have many choices when it comes to clutch kits.

EBC
DPK
Barnett
Moose
OEM
Other??

They all vary in price. Some can be purchased as individual plates and fibers. Some are complete kits. OEM everything is individual.

[AZRickD]

QC, those were the worst of the grooves.

Now I have another problem:

Welllll...

Got everything back together and something wasn't engaging correctly. The clutch lever was difficult to engage, and even when it was full on, the clutch was essentially a direct drive.

I drained all the fluid, took the cover off and glanced once again at the exploded view on the manual and re-installed. Now the clutch lever has no resistance, so I'm in a diffferent boat, but still adrift.

My guess is that I'm not sure how to gauge the tension on the bolts that compress the four springs. There has to be some play in there to allow that semi-circular (flat on one side) pivot rod to push in the (what is that, a pilot bearing?) as the clutch cable is pulled. Too tight and there is no where for that plate to move; too loose and I wonder if the bolts will back out (or something).

My neighbor who actually knows his way around clutches (at least Yamaha clutches) had to go out on a call so I'm stuck in the garage pondering my audacity.

Poopie.

Rick

[Indawoods]

Tighten them all the way down! Trust me...

[AZRickD]

Yeah, the manual says tighten them all the way down with ~78-inch-pounds, but that's when I get the lock-up. I've backed them half way out and the clutch doesn't engage, as one would suspect. As I tighten them up, the clutch begins to modestly grab more...

...but the clutch lever has more and more play, to the point that with the bolts all the way tight, the clutch lever just flops no matter how I adjust the clutch cable.

This makes me think that I've got a washer or something out of place. I think I'll tear it all down again and start from scratch.

The manual is not as helpful as I'd like.

Rick

[Indawoods]

The stack is very picky.... better count all your disks... I bet you have a couple stuck together....

[AZRickD]

While I'm at it, I measured the friction plate thickness. The book spec is 2.92 mm to 3.08 mm with the service limit being 2.7 mm.

My typical one measures 2.67 mm (.105") while even the best are barely passing at 2.92 mm (1.15"). Looks like new clutch plates are in order as well.

I measured the springs as well. Standard length is is 38.7mm with a service limit of 37.2mm. You guessed it. It's a bit short at 36.0 mm.

I think I may just bag this until I get a new clutch kit. Of course, our more reasonably priced shops are closed on Sunday -- I'll likely have to order it and wait "5-7 business days."

-edit- I found another section in the manual which suggests that I blundered yet again. Let's see if this works.

BTW, if anyone asks how difficult the KX fork mod is... except for pressing out and in of the steering stem, I'll take the fork mod over the clutch any day.

Rick

[AZRickD]

Ha !!

After only the fifth or sixth attempt to put the dang thing together, looks like I've got it working.

First mistake was not reading the directions all the way through.
Second mistake was putting a washer on the wrong side of the basket.
Third mistake was messing up the every-other-one order of the friction plate and steel plate arrangment. I had one steel plate on the outside and two friction plates touching.
Fourth mistake was not having the last friction plate placed on the outer-most notch of the basket (as the directions clearly said).

It's a wonder it didn't shake itself loose.

So, even though both the friction plates and springs are below tolerances, the filing down of the wear-grooves in the basket has made the clutch behave better. No more jumping when I pop it into first, although it still resists the kickstarter when in gear.

Dare I go on a ride tomorrow?

Rick

[Colorado Mike]

Sure. bring snow shoes.

oh, you mean down there.

Bastid.

[AZRickD]

I think you need professional counseling, Mister Mile-High-Mike.

Rick
Looking forward to a chilly 61F.

[AZRickD]

Did a few hours worth of riding today at Mile Marker 11.5 north of Phoenix. It held up well (not to say that I wasn't concerned).

First I get into the forks, then the total front and rear brake systems, now the clutch. Pretty soon I'll be tearing into that KIPS valve like a pro.

Rick

[bradf]

In the college of hard knocks, Rick gets another A+ on his way to his PhD. One day we will call you Professor Rick!

[AZRickD]

I think maybe I was kiddin' about that KIPS thing. I'll probably have Monkeybuttparts.com do mine.

Rick

[canyncarvr]

Sorry I missed this..I could'a saved you a lot of trouble.

The misplaced washer is the #1 culprit with the problems you described. That should'a been caught by others, frankly. No free beer for life for you guys!!

No way I would have come up with all the others (misplaced plates and stuff) though!

The last (outside) plate placement is not significant. You can run it in the same slots as the others if you wish. No biggie. Maybe that's not what you mean by 'outermost notch'.

Pretty ugly? Those notches are nothing. File 'em and forget it. Draw file. It's easier to remove the resulting (from filing) ridge when it's on the OUTside of the basket.

OEM or in for a ride? RonAyers lists the OEM basket for $210. Fredette sells the Hinson basket for $200. Yeah..you have to change the gear. I'm not arguing the 'in for a ride' part...if that's what you think, you're welcome. Considering the difference in quality, it doesn't seem that big a deal to me. As you like it.

Torque on the bolts is critical!! Kind'a like torque on the OEM front axle cap studs. Tighten them over spec and you are going to break the basket. Then you have no choice but to replace it.

Re: Plates under spec. Ha! I think the spec is bogus myself. I've put in brand new OEM plates that were 'under spec'. Same for springs!


Cold? Rode Saturday. 26º when I left the house. Went UP from there (elevation, I mean)!

I like my grip heaters!!!

[AZRickD]

I decided to put in the new clutch kit this Sunday.

I'm a pro, although I still get nervous.

The friction plates were to spec, but the springs were barely longer than my old ones.

Since I was out of my regular Maxima or my other 75wt gear oil, I poured in some Chevron Supreme 10w-40 API SL. It didn't mention any thing about "Energy Saving" or "friction reducer" or "molybdinum" but I notice that at high RPM and higher accereration loads the clutch was slipping (as shown by unstable revs).

It went away as the bike warmed up.

Same thing happened, to a lesser extent on my ride yesterday, and the slipping went away even before the bike warmed up.

I'm going to drain the Chevron Supreme and put in some Maxima or Rotella T, or whatever tomorrow.

Rick