VERY Tight Clutch Lever ???

[jwh02017]

Hello everybody, this is my first time posting on here. I bought my first dirt bike about a month ago. It is a 2000 KDX200. I've rode my buddies dirt bikes a few times, so I decided I needed my own

I've been riding the bike on the weekends and weekend before last I had a clutch cable start to break on me. I thought it wasn't a big deal, I bought a new one and installed it no problems. The guy I bought the bike off of said he was running ATF. Since the book calls for Oil, I decided to swtich to a GTX 10W-40 oil. Now here's my problem, after I installed the new clutch cable, I noticed the lever was REALLY hard to pull. I switched from ATF to 10W-40 oil before the cable problems, so I wouldn't "think" the fluids would be the problem. I've tried playing with the perch adjustment and the adjustments on the cable itself, but I have yet to loosen it up any. My buddy said I should be able to pull the clutch lever with one finger. There is no way I can pull it with one finger. I have to use all my fingers to pull the lever. It's actually so hard to pull back that this past weekend I developed a bruse on my middle finger from pulling the lever so much. Up to this point, the bike has never caused me to get a bruse on my finger from the lever....haha I've checked the cable and it doesn't have any kinks and if you free both ends, the cable slides real easy. I've also tried to lub the inside of the cable. Here is the cable that I bought... Motion Pro Terminator Clutch Cable.

Right now, I'm thinking of switching back to a ATF instead of the oil to see if that does anything. Since I don't think it has to do with the cable or the lever adjustments, I'm now wondering if there's something inside the case that is making the clutch lever too tight??? Is there any kind of adjustments inside the case I could do?

Any thoughts? Should I really be able to pull the clutch lever with one finger?

Thanks,
Justin

BTW, I've been doing alot of reading on this forum. Lots of good info here

[Indawoods]

Welcome to the site!

Routing is very important on clutch operation and also lubrication. The type of oil shouldn't make a difference in how hard your clutch is to use. I would check the clutch springs to make sure none are broken or misaligned.

Also on the actuating rod, make sure it is seated in the hole.


It should be easy to pull in the clutch on these KDX's.

[Colorado Mike]

What Inda said. Plus, I doubt it's the oil since it worked fine before. I bet there's something wrong with what you just did, replacing the lever. Check every component and make sure it moves freely. Take the cable out of the lever and make sure the pivot point is lubricated and not tightened too much. The lever should be able to move super easy with no cable on it. Easy like you could move it with your tongue if you wanted (not that you would, that would be weird). I don't know about that cable, whether it's compatible, but the routing can be a big factor even if it is.

Welcome to the site and let us know what you find out.

[jwh02017]

Indawoods: I've tried routing the cable a couple different ways and I always got the same result. My buddy used one of those cable lub adapter things, it did make the cable a little slicker, but the cable was really free before. The reason I was thinking it might be the oil is because when I bought the bike, I changed the ATF to Motor Oil and I noticed the viscosity of the ATF was thinner. When you mention checking the clutch springs, is this something an amateur can do? My main hobby has been guns, and I've never really played with motors that much in the past. I do have the service manual for the bike, so I'm sure that'll help. When I remove the clutch cover, do I need to install a new gasket? Or can I reuse the old one? I did notice the manual said to use a new one, but the book also says to use new lock washers in some places too....haha Is the actuating rod the rod that the cable connects to down near the case? And when you say check to make sure it's seated in the hole, I'm assuming this is something I check once the case cover is off?

Colorado Mike: Yep the lever (with no cable attached) is super easy to move. Like you said, I "could" move it with my tongue...haha. Heck I think it's so free that I bet I can get it to move by just blowing on it.

I'm kinda scared to take the clutch cover off, because I can just imagine parts come flying out as soon as I remove the cover

Thanks guys for the replies.

Justin

[Colorado Mike]

No parts are gonna fly out when you take the clutch cover off except the oil, and that doesn't really fly. Well maybe it flies, but only like the Iraqi air force.

I just can't help but think it got screwed up when you replaced the cable, so you must have done something wrong. Are you absolutely sure the actuator lever on the top of the case is in the right position? Take it one step at a time and see where the binding occurs. Take the cable off the actuator arm on the case, make sure the clutch lever moves the cable freely, then see if the actuator lever is moving with normal clutch spring resistance. You'll need to use a wrench or pair of channel locks to grip it.

[jwh02017]

Colorado Mike: Yes, I'm pretty sure the actuator lever is in the right position. I actually double checked that last night with my service manual. With the cable attached to the lever, and the other end of the cable NOT attached to the actuator, the lever moves smooooooth. Whenever I need to remove the cable from the actuator, I have been using a pair of vice grips. The bad thing is, I don't know what "normal" clutch spring resistance is.

I was just thinking about something..... how I knew there was a problem with the cable to begin with is when I was riding, the clutch basically stopped working. I would have the clutch lever pulled and shift to 1st gear and the bike would want to take off while I was still holding in the clutch. This is when I started looking at the lever. I then noticed the cable had started to fray. I'm just wondering if the problem started when I still had the old clutch cable on? I'm starting to think the reason the old cable started to fray apart was because the clutch pressure started getting harder and harder, until finally something had to give and the weakest link was the old cable. Any thoughts?

I won't have time tonight, but tomorrow night I'm going to try and take the clutch cover off to see if I can see anything way out of wack in there. Can you guys think of anything else I might look for? I might try to take some pics after I remove the cover.

Thanks,
Justin

[Colorado Mike]

In that case , back to what Inda said. Since you have the manual, take the clutch apart and check each component for wear. The book tells you what the specs are. also look at the basket to see if it's notched where the plates touch it. I think the book tells you how to file the notches if present. Hopefully you have some calipers to measure the friction plate thickness. That's not causing your problem, but if it's close to the limit, you'll want to replace them since you have the thing apart. You need a torque wrench you know.

[canyncarvr]

You can lay the bike on its side if you don't want to change the oil (this time or any other time you want to take a quick look at the clutch).

In most cases you can reuse the clutch cover gasket. I've had my cover off a handful of times...still on the OEM gasket. A bit of RTV may be used at any spot the gasket is goobered.

Obviously take some care when removing the cover to help save the gasket.

The type of oil used will effect how the clutch operates (slips, engages, disengages), but not the pull of the lever.

You mentioned the case actuator moves smoothly..but you didn't mention the angle of that movement. The adjustment procedure in the manual for clutch re-assy shows you how that lever is to be situated..basically a lever will move the 'most' when it moves through a 90º angle evenly on both sides. That didn't change with a cable swap..it is dictated by spacers/washers in the clutch.

IF it worked fine before, IF the routing is correct, IF the perch/lever setup is good (if you mismatch levers/perches you may well have problems), I would suspect the clutch housing itself. That it's new doesn't matter. I've had more than one 'brand new' part that wasn't any good to start with.

MotionPro has made a couple of those!!

Replace it with an OEM cable.

Again...THAT if the 'IF's above are 'good'.

The other stuff does apply, basket notches, spring length, maybe some washers added by the previous owner to bandaid slipping springs..stuff like that.

re: 'I just can't help but think it got screwed up when you replaced the cable..'

CM is right about most things (I didn't say 'all' because I'm sure there is SOMEthing wrong SOMEwhere...maybe fluid of choice for fishbowls or something), so I'm safe in saying, 'I agree!'

Welcome to the site!

[jwh02017]

Well, I had time tonight to take the clutch apart. To me everything looked almost factory new. Nothing really jumped out at me that might seem wrong. I checked all the plates and they seemed well within spec. But when I checked the springs, they were a little under. My book said the standard free length is 1.524 inches and the service limit is 1.465. When I checked the springs they measured between 1.440 and 1.445. Now I don't know anything about clutches, but I would think if the springs were too short, it would make the clutch lever easier to squeeze. I think I'm about to go try and put some spacers (washers) on the springs to bring the overall length back within spec. Then I'm going to put it all back together and see how hard it is to squeeze. Don't worry, I'm not going to run the bike with the washers in there...haha

I did measure the actuator lever angle and it seems to be within spec.

I took a whole lot of pics when I was taking the thing apart. See if you guys can see anything major wrong.

Thanks,
Justin















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[Indawoods]

You didn't twist that actuating arm around one entire turn before attaching the cable did you? (Don't know if it could even be done)

It takes like a 1/8 turn and attach the cable to the arm.

Everything looks pretty good...even the cage.

Just trying to think of what could cause that so don't laugh....

[Indawoods]

Kinda looks to me that you have a set of odd matched springs (meaning: they could be of different tension) causing a binding in the operation of the clutch.

Are the pics correct? Some are blue and some are black?

If you look on the inner part of the hub, it looks as if one is hanging on one of the towers.

[Colorado Mike]

yeah, I've seen a lot worse work a lot better. If I was doing it, I'd try new springs. A matched set even.

[Indawoods]

Springs are dirt cheap....

[IdahoCharley]

I thought the clutch looked very good - did not see what the problem was. (Although binding of pressure plate is easy to do and hard to see. BTW - good pictures)

I think the springs are stock - I've noticed that many manufactures use a color stripe to identify their springs. I'am sure Sam's KDX did.

Not much help from me - Sorry

[Indawoods]

My stockers didn't have any stripes, but my bike was a transition year bike too.

[Colorado Mike]

One more thought... I had a problem once on my old KDX 175 with that actuator shaft. A sliver of metal from the cover casting got trapped between the shaft and the hole it sits in. In my case it caused it to release slowly. Maybe check that hole for burrs, or O-ring material jamming it up. I put mine together with assembly lube and it worked great after that.

[canyncarvr]

I haven't seen it referenced elsewhere before, but my money is on the clutch spring spec being wrong. My OEM springs also measured way short compared to the listed spec, and were quite new. Increasing spring rate or clutch pack tension isn't going to make it pull easier.


I think you're getting off base. You said the clutch worked smoothly when using the lever at the tranny cover, so why wonder about the clutch? Checking it out is fine, but looking for problems there if you have satisfied yourself it all works OK from the outside isn't addressing the problem.

I'm still with Mike: 'I just can't help but think it got screwed up when you replaced the cable, so you must have done something wrong. Are you absolutely sure the actuator lever on the top of the case is in the right position?'

That, and I don't trust the cable you put on to be any good.



One thing kind'a bothers me...the wear on the actuator shaft flat. I recall mine having no wear whatsoever last I checked it. I was surprised that it seemed to have NO mark on it whatsover considering the use it's had.


Don't forget the two washers..one UNDER the hub, one under the stack when you put it back together.

[jwh02017]

Indawoods: The springs are black with a blue stripe.

canyncarvr: I'm 99.9% sure I didn't screw something up with installing the new cable. The actuator lever is in the correct position. I'll take some new pics tomorrow night to show what it looks like when the cable is attached. My thinking is, something went wrong somewhere, and this caused the old cable to start to fray because of the increase force to pull the clutch.

I just ordered a new cable and a set of springs. I couldn't find OEM parts in stock so I had to buy aftermarket from Rocky Mountain ATV. They should be here tomorrow, so hopefully I can try these new parts to see if they make any difference.

BTW, actuator shaft flat did have a very slight burr on the edge where you see the wear. But to me it looks like normal wear. I mean the burr was soo small, I don't see how it could affect anything.

Thanks guys for the replies. I'll keep you posted.

Justin

[jwh02017]

Oh yeah, one other thing.... last night I found some 0.050" thick washers. I placed one washer behind each spring. So this brings the overall thickness to 1.495. So that should have been within spec..... even though it wouldn't be the exact same as having 0.050" worth of spring pressure. I put everything back together and tried the clutch lever and I got the exact same results... it was hard to pull. Hopefully when I get the new springs tomorrow I will get different results.

Justin

[Indawoods]

I want a pic of your forearm please!