Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

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'03KDX200
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Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by '03KDX200 »

First off, the wheel never rotated very easily. It always slowed down quickly when I had the bike up and I could spin the front wheel by hand. So I just did my wheel bearings, got my wheel back on there and it's super stiff now! It acts like the brake is dragging really bad. I can hear the pad scraping on the disc so it's definitely dragging but I don't know why it would be dragging so much more now that I've had the wheel on and off for a bearing job. Perhaps my bearings didn't get seated totally flat inside of their housings in the wheel hub? Perhaps the odometer gear housing is badly worn and causing drag? Maybe the brake caliper isn't seated exactly right somehow. Or it's not centered exactly right somehow...

Speaking of the odometer gear housing, are you supposed to be able to take it all the way apart for cleaning? Because I don't see how you're supposed to do that. I can remove a C-clip but it doesn't seem to really loosen anything.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by bufftester »

For the speedo drive, the plastic part inside rotates as you pull it off. Spray it with some brake cleaner to help loosen it up then repack it with grease. Check to make sure you have your bearings fully seated, also make sure your fork legs are straight (upper and lower triple clamps aligned) The brake will drag a bit but you should be able to easily turn the wheel by hand.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by KDXGarage »

Take the caliper off to help determine whether it is brake related or not.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by kdxdazz »

Sounds like sticky caliper piston. Get the soapy water and tooth brush out :)
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by bufftester »

As mentioned, 2 bolts to pull the caliper off and you'll know immediately.
If it is the caliper put it on a stand, try to spin the wheel by hand, then grab a handful of brake and try to spin it again. That will tell you if your piston is releasing enough. If its a sticky piston you want to clean or rebuild the caliper. Not a tough job, but can be messy and frustrating bleeding the line after.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by '03KDX200 »

bufftester wrote: 12:20 am May 13 2020 For the speedo drive, the plastic part inside rotates as you pull it off. Spray it with some brake cleaner to help loosen it up then repack it with grease. Check to make sure you have your bearings fully seated, also make sure your fork legs are straight (upper and lower triple clamps aligned) The brake will drag a bit but you should be able to easily turn the wheel by hand.
Great tips. I took the little hub apart completely, degreased it, then regreased it with some nice grease, put it all back together properly and installed it back in the wheel, then reinstalled the wheel and torqued down the axle properly, removed the brake caliper, and made a video of it to show you guys! It's still stiff, but not quite as stiff as before. I think the odometer gear mechanism was gunked up and contributing to the drag, but there's still a lot of drag coming from somewhere, and it's not the brakes. I didn't have time to bang on the bearings to make sure they're seated properly, I'll do that tonight. In the meantime hopefully you guys can see the video and tell me if this amount of drag is in the realm of normal or not, with the brake caliper removed.

Here's the video:
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by KDXGarage »

forks not aligned properly
bent forks
bent axle
bearing damage
wheel misaligned

try it with the axle not fastened securely
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by '03KDX200 »

KDXGarage wrote: 03:01 pm May 14 2020 forks not aligned properly
bent forks
bent axle
bearing damage
wheel misaligned

try it with the axle not fastened securely
Thanks KDXGarage. Yeah so last night I took the wheel off again, and I banged the wheel bearings into their seat all the way around real good on both sides, just to make sure they were seated all the way in. I also decided the stupid odometer gear assembly was still adding drag so I removed the metal worm gear completely. I reassembled the wheel, brakes, and everything and..... still tight! I don't think any of that made any difference at all! I have another couple ideas what it could be, so I'm going to spend some more time on it tonight. Thanks a bunch for your input with that list of things it could be. One of those things corroborates another possibility floating in my head... I'll spend some more time on it and get back here with the results again.

Thank God for forums. I feel like no matter what type of motorcycling one might be into, it wouldn't be possible/sustainable without forum support online. I would never figure all this complicated, nitty-gritty **** out myself unless I was already a trained motorcycle mechanic already.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by KDXGarage »

Forums are great! Much easier than begging the shop mechanic for info!

Have you got a wooden dowel to put the wheel on?

It is not going to roll forever like a bicycle wheel, keep in mind.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by bufftester »

When you have the wheel off, insert the axle and then set the ends of the axle on some blocks so that the tire is off the ground and give it a spin (like you would do on a truing stand). That will help eliminate bearings. Then pull the axle out and check it against a straight edge in multiple locations to rule out a bent axle. You could also check to make sure the stack up is correct, in other words are the right washers and spacers installed? If it's always been that way maybe a PO got the wrong spacer installed? Stab in the dark but worth checking off the list.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by KDXGarage »

Do you have all these parts??

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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by pumpguy »

+1. Be sure the 92027 spacer tube that goes between the inner races of the 2 bearings is still there.

If missing, you have a very good chance of putting an axial load on these bearings, causing the drag you are experiencing.

When everything is properly assembled, there should only be a radial load on the bearings, and the wheel should spin freely as previously described.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by '03KDX200 »

bufftester wrote: 02:52 pm May 15 2020 When you have the wheel off, insert the axle and then set the ends of the axle on some blocks so that the tire is off the ground and give it a spin (like you would do on a truing stand). That will help eliminate bearings. Then pull the axle out and check it against a straight edge in multiple locations to rule out a bent axle. You could also check to make sure the stack up is correct, in other words are the right washers and spacers installed? If it's always been that way maybe a PO got the wrong spacer installed? Stab in the dark but worth checking off the list.
Ah ha!!!! I found the problem! Thanks for these tips, you and KDXGarage. I thought of your method of using the axle (after testing it for trueness). Just out of coincidence I saw a motorcycle wheel balancing stand on Craigslist for $25. I snatched it up. I brought it home and pulled the stupid front wheel off one more time and threw it on the stand. You know what???? The stupid bearings that I just installed, are stiffer than they should be! That was it, because when I tighten the wheel in the stand with those cones so they hold the inner wheel bearing surfaces, the wheel has that same amount of familiar drag, just like when the bike is all assembled. And just for good measure I took the rear wheel off too, threw that in the wheel stand, and it's smooth as butter. On the rear wheel my brand-new wheel bearings let the wheel just coast on and on, barely ever slowing down. On the front wheel with my brand new wheel bearings, it drags like crazy and barely goes 360 degrees with a medium toss.

Soooo.... Is that in the realm of normal? They're the All Balls brand sealed wheel bearings for this motorcycle, ordered from Rocky Mountain ATV/MC. Do you guys think that the bearings will loosen up over time? If that's the case, then why are the rear bearings so freely-rotating even when brand new?

Both left and right front wheel bearings have the same crappy drag. Both the rear ones are loose. What if... I've got the front bearings kinda like "over-installed" where I pounded them in so far that the steel axle tube between the bearings is putting pressure from the inside, forcing outwards, causing an axial load. That would explain why both bearings at the same time, too...
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by KDXGarage »

I would like to first congratulate you on the stand!

I DO think the bearings may be pushing against the spacer. A friend of mine had that issue in 2006 with his 1997 KDX220R. I think he had PivotWorks. Somehow, though fully pressed in, they had friction. He took on bearing out. I don't know if he just said to heck with it and reinstalled, or just bought a new one.

I guess bottom one out, then slowly creep up on the other one??
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by '03KDX200 »

Great info. Could this be a slight glitch in Kawasaki quality control or some such? In general I like the way this thing is put together, actually. Clever engineering all over the place. Props to Kawasaki.

Ok sweet then I know what I'll do. I'll just take the same round punch that I used to knock out the old wheel bearings, and start tapping it from the back side through the axle hole/wheel spacer tube. I'll bet I could eyeball the plumbness of the wheel bearing to within .5mm. I'll back out the bearing like .5mm to 1mm best I can, and try to get it even all the way around. and then chuck the wheel on the wheel balancer again to check bearing rotational drag.

Would there be any down side to pounding away at the inner bearing race like that? I mean it seems like that might put some crazy axial forces on that bearing. In a perfect world, you wouldn't want to have to beat sideways on the middle of any bearing like that.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by KDXGarage »

Beating on a bearing does usually damage it. Maybe pour boiling water on the hub or propane torch? Ice or dry ice for the bearing.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by bufftester »

You can drive one out and see what it feels like. When you drive them in you have to make sure you drive them against the outer race, not the inner one or the oil seal or you can damage them. Not likely that the space should cause that much friction, fully seated there is supposed to be just enough room for that center tube spacer to move around a bit, but it could happen I suppose. If they are just stiff and don't feel notchy or gritty I would probably just run them until its time for new ones. Best case you get a season of riding out of them or they loosen up. Worst case you have to change them.

BTW good score on the truing stand!
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by '03KDX200 »

bufftester wrote: 10:42 pm May 18 2020 You can drive one out and see what it feels like. When you drive them in you have to make sure you drive them against the outer race, not the inner one or the oil seal or you can damage them. Not likely that the space should cause that much friction, fully seated there is supposed to be just enough room for that center tube spacer to move around a bit, but it could happen I suppose. If they are just stiff and don't feel notchy or gritty I would probably just run them until its time for new ones. Best case you get a season of riding out of them or they loosen up. Worst case you have to change them.

BTW good score on the truing stand!
Ha, thanks for the complements on getting the truing stand! I love it already actually. I've already used it to physically wipe/clean off both wheels and check out run-out and look for nasty surprises in the wheels. Luckily, for as rough as this bike is overall, the wheels are pretty damned straight. I get about 1mm total for up-and-down and 3mm total motion in side-to-side. That's the back, the front is even closer tolerances than that. There is a substantial weight imbalance caused by the bead locking bolt/mechanism however. I wonder if you dirt bike guys bother with counterbalancing that somehow. Especially if you like to ride enduro and see a lot of high speeds.

But anyways, I had to jump on here on the forum before going to bed because THAT FIXED IT!!! I created about .5mm to 1mm of wiggle room for the axle spacer tube, by gently bashing the wheel bearing from the opposite side of the wheel hub. Now that metal spacer tube between the wheel bearings can slip around in there a lot easier. I put the wheel back on the wheel truing stand, and all that horrible dragging business is gone! It spins so freely now, I don't even have to crank it down with those metal cone things. Just the weight of gravity holds the inner wheel bearing race stationary while the rest of the wheel easily turns around it. THE STIFF WHEEL PROBLEM IS FIXED!
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by '03KDX200 »

KDXGarage wrote: 03:09 pm May 15 2020 Do you have all these parts??
Thanks for that diagram, I looked over it carefully and did a mental check so I was sure I had all the parts.
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Re: Boy is my front wheel stiff to rotate!

Post by kdxsully »

Make sure that spacer still puts pressure on those inner races, it counters the loads from the dont axle when torqued down. If necessary you can file it down a bit so it doesnt give you this problem when the bearings are fully seated. It should be a perfect fit as is though
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