CEK vs. DEK ?

Domenic_200 · Post by **Domenic_200** » 02:10 pm Dec 31 2005

New to this two-stroke jetting stuff

After finally getting the jetting dialed in, I installed an RB-designs air striker.

Now my question is whats the difference in power delivery between the C and D taper needles? I'm more interested in low end snap than top end performance..So far everything I learned with my past four-strokes don't apply to this two-stroke

Thanks

Domenic

Post by **Indawoods** » 02:14 pm Dec 31 2005

TED!

CEK is balls to the wall everwhere.
DEK is smooth but ballsy....

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 03:31 pm Dec 31 2005

Be a man and go with the CEK. You have the 200? I have a 220 with the RB modded airstryker carb and a CEK needle. It is very manageable for anyone used to riding a 2 stroke. Compared to my KX250, the CEK on my 220 with RB airstryker is a ***** cat at the lower rpm range.
Let's see, you are near my place I think. I have DEK you can try out if you want. I'm heading down to Olive Garden this evening for an early dinner; around 3:30pm. The one on Sunrise Blvd. If you want to meet me somewhere, I'll bring it down. Otherwise, I'll mail it to you if that works out better.

Domenic_200 · Post by **Domenic_200** » 03:49 pm Dec 31 2005

skipro3 wrote:Be a man and go with the CEK. You have the 200? I have a 220 with the RB modded airstryker carb and a CEK needle. It is very manageable for anyone used to riding a 2 stroke. Compared to my KX250, the CEK on my 220 with RB airstryker is a ***** cat at the lower rpm range.
Let's see, you are near my place I think. I have DEK you can try out if you want. I'm heading down to Olive Garden this evening for an early dinner; around 3:30pm. The one on Sunrise Blvd. If you want to meet me somewhere, I'll bring it down. Otherwise, I'll mail it to you if that works out better.

Thanks for the offer

bring a raft if you're coming to Sac..

I have a DEK among others..also about dozen FCR needles form my WR's. I want the most low end snap for those pesky Norcal roots and boulders. I tried C-taper needles in the stock PWK, but liked the B-taper better. I liked E-tapers vs. D-tapers in my Four-strokes better. This seems quite opposite in the two-strokes

So I guess my question is what taper of needle is the most explosive? Thanks

m0rie · Post by **m0rie** » 03:55 pm Dec 31 2005

If you want explosive on the low end then a CEK in the #3 or #4 clip position is the needle to have.

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 05:22 pm Dec 31 2005

Yup, I agree!!!

One thing to keep in mind though, is a good tire to handle the conditions. Another topic, I know, but there's no use having a strong bottom end and then no traction to apply it. I've been just amazed with the IRC M5B for our area of riding. A couple of days ago at Praire City, that thing would hook up like no tomorrow; mud or river rock!! It's also good in the roots and clay we have higher up too. 120 size is good for the modded up KDX. If you time it right, it will wear down about the end of the rainy season. Then it doesn't matter what you have on the bike in the dust, they all seem to perform about the same in hard pack and dust to me.
Off to dinner!!!

Domenic_200 · Post by **Domenic_200** » 06:47 pm Dec 31 2005

I'll give the C a try tomorrow at PC

I hope you know that US 50 and 80 are closed to the valley..

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 09:31 pm Dec 31 2005

I'm not that far up 50. Check the PM I sent you.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 11:04 pm Dec 31 2005

The 'snap' of the C needle happens lower in the throttle range..compared to the D. My personal experience with the C (all disclaimers involving YOUR use and what YOU think applies) is that is was a whole lot of less than useful wheelspin way too soon in the throttle. I'm more interested in GO than I am in SPRAY. If traction isn't a problem then the C will get you going sooner.

The D still has a fun hit (obviously, THAT is going to happen...or not..depending on all sorts of other things..pipe, reed, engine condition, timing etc etc), but it's a bit later in the throttle. I get more USEABLE bottom end with a D than I do a C.

Most of the riding I do is single track stuff. From what I hear from others that have ridden up here, it's generally more technical than most. With the C I either have too much spin, or the front end is up WAY too soon to suit me. Also, at the end of the day, the C will have flat worn me out just hanging on!

The D doesn't do that.

It's not a big deal to try them both. To heck with what anyone else says...find out for yourself.

Don't overlook trying clip-4...on EITHER needle.

Don't overlook the value of the air screw on a modified carb, either. The 200 has an air screw setting further out than most generally considered acceptable..try it around 2 1/2 out..bracket that by 1/16's. There is a spot that will greatly inhance off idle response AND 3rd gear pull in lower RPM ranges. You'll know it when you find it! It's a lot of fun!!

Good luck!

Domenic_200 · Post by **Domenic_200** » 02:36 pm Jan 01 2006

Well I can say is WOW! The RB air striker with the CEK changes the bikes whole personality.

If it wasn't muddy I would have looped out several times. Going to try the DEK next. I sure the the motor will get stronger as the top ends still breaking in. Thanks for the help..

Domenic

Post by **Indawoods** » 10:05 pm Jan 01 2006

Those should be the only needles you will ever need......

89kdx200rdr · Post by **89kdx200rdr** » 01:14 am Jan 03 2006

i cant believe the cek vs dek needle thing is still going on. thought cc answered that a long time ago.

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 12:28 pm Jan 03 2006

ski wrote:Be a man and go with the CEK.

Nobody listens to me...'cuz I'm not a man, I guess!

Based on what you said about the 'B' over the 'C'..and, '...would have looped out...', I'll bet you will like the 'D' better.

Whatever 'power' you have HAS to be useable! Spin&Loop isn't 'useable'. Neither is making your shoulders so sore you can't hang on!

But...a man would have a different opinion!

Domenic_200 · Post by **Domenic_200** » 01:10 pm Jan 03 2006

HEY! I'm old and slow now

put the DEK in, so maybe that won't scare me..Thanks and sorry I didn't search for the past threads.

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 01:15 pm Jan 03 2006

I guess that any bike that puts out more power than a modded up KDX isn't useable?
Spin is corrected by tire selection. I learned that the hard way and have discovered the M5B to be great for curing that (for me). Loop is corrected by riding style and throttle control. I've learned that the hard way too, but when I'm chasing a KX500, or, now, a Husaberg 550 all day long through the woods, I had to learn or get left behind!!

A KDX that makes your shoulders sore so you can't hang on? I think a trip to the gym would solve that.

I can't wait to get you on my KX Brad. I'll have a medic standing by to re-attach your arms and bandage you up from loop-outs. Only a little over 4 months before then, so hit the gym!!

NOTE: In all fairness, my experiance with CEK and DEK needles are with an RB Designs modded up Air Striker carb mounted to a KDX220 running at 6000 ft elevations. The performance Brad experiances is with the same carb on a 200 at lower elevations. Brad also runs a REV pipe and I run a WOODS pipe. I SUPPOSE that his bike MIGHT develop a stronger pull...... but after talking to the governor, it's most likely that he's a girly man. Now, that's fair!!!

canyncarvr · Post by **canyncarvr** » 02:28 pm Jan 03 2006

Yes. More power is not useable. The KDX is the only woodsbike that is worth a dungbeetle's ball. More power will just get your bike hanging in some tree with a busted fork bleeder!

We won't talk about how far behind a 200 some 220 was..to the tune of about a gear and 1/2...and the last 1/4 of the throttle.

**edit** I didn't say that.

I've been going to the gym...three nights a week for about the past 25 years. Well...was then......

Just kidding, of course! All in good fun and all that.

I've got an M5B on my 'list' of things to try out.

It's all a matter of personal choice and preference. No one has to use the parts and pieces I use or ride like I do. What's fun is tuning your machine to do exactly what you want it to do. I do ask that you just wait up for me at the next junction so I don't get completely left behind!!

What '4 months'? My calendar has 'skipro ride' on it this coming or next weekend!!

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 02:42 pm Jan 03 2006

O.K. Then. I have January 14th through the 19th available. I'm on vacation from the 14th to the 22nd but going to SandyEggo on Friday the 20th. So let me know if there's any riding due to weather and I'll come up! Right now, we are drowning with all the rain and high snow levels. Makes for pretty good duck hunting though!!

***EDIT***
I forgot!!!!
I'm not going to Bend for Winter Survival Training. Work said they couldn't afford to have me off that long and I refused to cancel my vacation, so they are sending someone else. Otherwise I would a been up there this weekend and next too!!

fulltiltboogie · Post by **fulltiltboogie** » 03:01 pm Jan 03 2006

Maybe its because I have an autoclutch but my bike with CEK does NOT have the hit anybody speaks of. I had the clutch before the carb mod. I wish it had a hit but it doesn't. Don't get me wrong, it runs very strong throughout the power band and is all very usable.

skipro3 · Post by **skipro3** » 03:34 pm Jan 03 2006

The autoclutch should allow the motor to hook up almost instantly, mine does! Here's a test:
At a crawl speed in 2nd gear: twist the throttle 1/4 (no more!). The front wheel should easily loft off the ground and loop if you aren't ready for a weight shift of chop of the throttle. If it's bogging or hesitating, you need to find out why. Most likely the air screw adjustment. You said you have a CEK needle; is that with the RB carb too?

fulltiltboogie · Post by **fulltiltboogie** » 06:38 pm Jan 03 2006

Yeah CEK with Air Striker from RB. No hesitation or bogging. Front wheel will loft easily. Your right.....the autoclutch hooks up instantly. I still don't consider it a hit. Now say a KX or EXC 300....now thats a hit!

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CEK vs. DEK ?

CEK vs. DEK ?