Power valve gear worn down (exhaust valve?)

[Bitteeinit]

Not sure what these are called, but they're worn down a bit:



Went on the Kawazaki site it seems to be these parts (12005 and 12005A):

They call them "VALVE-EXHAUST,LH" and "VALVE-EXHAUST,RH" if I'm not mistaken.

Looks like what they talk about in this thread (albeit mine don't seem "attached"):
http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... ar#p147368


However, when I search on ebay, I come up with pictures like this, which looks completely different:



So what are these gears called anyways? And what are my options? Order the parts from Kawazaki? How long does that take? Are they different for the pre-95 and 95+ bikes?


[EDIT]Seems they have the parts on kawazakipartshouse.com... For 37.39$ per piece!

[Bitteeinit]

Sorry seems I've answered my own question (well, you gys answered it already!):
http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... 98&t=14594

I assume these are the same for ALL KDX 200s regardless of the year? Seems most don't have a year attached to them so am I right in assuming it's a one-size fits all type of deal? Turns out 37$ wasn't that bad of a price compared to a lot of places...

[Julien D]

C series (86-88), E series, (89-94), and H series (95+) all had different subvalves. From your pics you have an E, so you need the valves for 89-94.

[KDXGarage]

WOW. You may want to check on a head gasket, too.

[Julien D]

Lol, yup.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

[KDXGarage]

$38 sounds about right.

Someone had mentioned that one of the sides was canceled, meaning no longer available.

[Bitteeinit]

Thanks! I was about to ask what the sure-fire way to know the year of a bike was. I was 90% sure it's a 94, but some 95s also seemed to have the USD (so did some 93s). I was scared of getting the wrong gasket set (pre 95 or 95+) but at least it's now settled I have a 94.

Instead of starting a new thread, hopefully you guys can help me do a checklist for my new top-end? I'm in South East Asia so getting parts is a pan in the ass and obviously returns are out of the question. I can only get a small bundle now and then (yearly?). A guy I know is coming over in about a month and I had the bike checked and have a small list of parts to get. I've also seen some prices in the "Must Read" section, but they don't seem to match what I find.

So far I need:
-New piston and rings (I need 66.5 though 67 will also do. I'm thinking of getting a 66.5 or 67 and a standard 66 as a backup for when I resleeve in the distant future).
-Piston pin+pin bearing
-top-end gasket Might as well get two of these in case I open her up in the future?

All of the above is part of the Wiseco top-end set, correct? (~150$)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiseco-Kawasaki ... e0&vxp=mtr
http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/Wisec ... it-2Stroke
http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/Comet ... Gasket-Kit

Other parts I need:
-left and right exhaust valves The kawazaki website I posted earlier seems to have the best prices. (~80$)
-friction plates/cutch plates I'm having a bit of trouble finding these. I found Tusk clutch plates for roughly 50$ on both ebay and rockymountainatv. Any other recommendations?
-My reeds are good but since I'm at it I might as well get some Boyesens off ebay? (30$)
Total: 150$ (wiseco)+80$ (exhaust valves)+extra gasket set (40$)+friction plates (50$)+reeds (32)=352$

Am I missing any other essentials which I should get while I'm at it? Are those exhaust valve gears really that weak? Is it "normal" for them to wear quickly?1 Gotanubike mentions them breaking down after 6-8 hours. Surely that's the exception?! Kind of scary.

[Gotanubike]

You need 89-94 KIPS valves, the design changed in 95

LH...........12005-1121
RH...........12005-1122
Idle gear....59051-1206

I've been trying and trying to get Brock going on the bushings/adapters for the steel KMX valves, and every time he returns with "Running it by the guys in the shop now" or "Hope to have them ready by tomorrow"....


Last I hear from him was July 24th:

Sorry I haven’t been back to you for a while – we’ve been overworked leading up to racing and away out of the country doing that.

I have the chief on the case with this spacer thing and I hope to be able to say it’s done tomorrow (it’s on today’s list but I don’t think we’ll get that far).

Bear with me it should be ready post haste and we’ll sort a paypal out for it.

We’ll give it a check on a barrel we have here before it goes out.

All the best,

The very last picture from your first post is the centrifugal governor that operates the KIPS lever and is located under the right side cover. It runs off an idle gear on the clutch side I believe and opens up the KIPs after 6000rpm

As for piston, I found oemcycle.com to have the best prices for wiseco pistons, here is the page with all sizes you will need:

http://www.oemcycle.com/Item/product/90 ... noRediR=1/

Unsure whether they ship overseas or not

[Bitteeinit]

Thanks, I was hoping you'd chime in GANB. Would I absolutely need the idle gear if I'm replacing the left and right kips valves? Also, why does it look like a solid piece of metal when I see parts pictures online, but the one I'm holding is clearly just a little "gear"? Do they come apart? Getting a group purchase of those steel ones would be pretty cool. Aluminum definitely is a bad choice it seems. Any idea why your bike chews through them so fast?

Thanks for that link. Their Wiseco set is only 147$ and Athena top-end gasket set is only 27$. Great! Am I better off buying a complete Wiseco set or buying a piston (86$), wrist pin (12$) and top-end bearing (12$) and Athena gasket set (27$) individually (saving 10$, lol). Does it make a difference? Still no luck with the clutch plates though. 50$ isn't too bad I suppose. How many plates does the KDX have? 7? 8? I see this one for sale at a good price but it's supposedly only 89-93... I would have thought 94 had the same clutch as the 93?!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLUTCH-FRICTION ... e7&vxp=mtr

[Gotanubike]

From the looks of things there you will need both LH and RH valves. Unsure about the idle gear because I can't see, it's covered up by the collar. The idle gear is there to reverse the direction that the RH valve spins. The LH and RH valves need to spin in opposite directions to operate properly.

That thing you're holding in your hand is the broken off gear head of the valve. This is a picture of a all the KIPS stuff removed and cleaned, credit to user Keystone for the pic: http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... b00e14.jpg

Regardless, you will need to take everything apart and give that whole cylinder a thorough cleaning. After you remove all the kips components, I would attack all the gunk with some brake/carb cleaner and blast it with a pressure washer!

Lay out all the KIPS components and check the idle gear for wear. The rod and the center valve are made of steel so you should see no issue with those.

[6 Riders]

YOur bike is the same as the 93. So parts for a 93 will fit the 94.....also, most engine and trans parts are the same from 91-94, so those parts should all interchange as well.

Since you are ordering parts, can I recommend the water pump seals and bearing? I usually buy 2 or 3 seals at a time (one bearing lasts plenty long). Last time I purchased these, I bought an Engine seal kit for about $20, came with all the oil and water seals.....and it was cheaper than individual KAW parts.

[KDXGarage]

Post a VIN or Frame Number and we can run a check for you on year model.

[Bitteeinit]

From the looks of things there you will need both LH and RH valves. Unsure about the idle gear because I can't see, it's covered up by the collar. The idle gear is there to reverse the direction that the RH valve spins. The LH and RH valves need to spin in opposite directions to operate properly.

Alright, tomorrow afternoon I'll uncover that idle gear and have a look. Mechanic sad he looked at the engine so those might be ok, but better to have a look myself just to be sure.

That thing you're holding in your hand is the broken off gear head of the valve. This is a picture of a all the KIPS stuff removed and cleaned, credit to user Keystone for the pic: http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb4 ... b00e14.jpg

So it's actually snapped off?! If it was broken, how would I know? Loss of power? The bike drove fine before I took it apart to be honest... Difficult to switch gears so I knew I needed new clutch pads but other than that...
What I find weird is that what I'm holding has no protruding piece of metal (doesn't have that weird bottom part, nor does it have that piece sticking out at the top). It's just a round gear. So it snapped off its stem (top metal part as well)?! The bike is sitting in a shop so I'll go back tomorrow and try to check out all these parts using a diagram and snap a few pictures. And yeah, the cylinder head will get a good thorough washing, don't worry!

Since you are ordering parts, can I recommend the water pump seals and bearing? I usually buy 2 or 3 seals at a time (one bearing lasts plenty long). Last time I purchased these, I bought an Engine seal kit for about $20, came with all the oil and water seals.....and it was cheaper than individual KAW parts.

Do you recommend a specific site for those?
This would be the engine seal kit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winderosa-Engin ... 40&vxp=mtr

Would a kit like this normally include the water pump seals?

Regarding bearings, do you mean the crankshaft bearing/seals? Mooseracing has some for 50$ as well. Mechanic told me he looked at everything so it should be fine, but here you never know.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KAWASAKI-KDX200 ... e4&vxp=mtr

[Gotanubike]

So it's actually snapped off?! If it was broken, how would I know? Loss of power? The bike drove fine before I took it apart to be honest... Difficult to switch gears so I knew I needed new clutch pads but other than that...
What I find weird is that what I'm holding has no protruding piece of metal (doesn't have that weird bottom part, nor does it have that piece sticking out at the top). It's just a round gear. So it snapped off its stem (top metal part as well)?! The bike is sitting in a shop so I'll go back tomorrow and try to check out all these parts using a diagram and snap a few pictures. And yeah, the cylinder head will get a good thorough washing, don't worry!

Yep I've seen some pretty bad cases and that appears to be one of them. I've seen ones where the gear head snaps off then tumbles around in the engine until it turns into a little ball of shitty alloy. If your kips are broke/stuck closed, you will not get that "hit" at the powerband when they're supposed to open. If they break and are stuck open, you will lose bottom end power and still have the top end.

Again, a reference to what a brand new set of KIPS gears should look like:



Your e6 needs TWO water/oil seals. That "89-94" ebay listing may be incorrect. The impeller shaft and right side cover underwent some minor changes after 1991 or 1992 I think.

Also, it doesn't mention anything about oil seals in the description..

KAW seal numbers:

92049-1366
92049-1359

Impeller shaft bearing:

92045-1305

...

Crank bearings and seals will involve splitting the engine case and removing the transmission gears, shift forks,, drum, shaft, etc. Probably a $400-500 job if done by a professional mechanic, if not more

[Bitteeinit]

Post a VIN or Frame Number and we can run a check for you on year model.

Here's where it gets weird... I only have a frame number (unless there's a VIN somewhere I haven't located):
DX200G-028277

The USD blue forks and decals seem to indicate it's a 94, but I'm not sure. Should I be looking somewhere else? Or is there a way to figure out the year from the HIN? A few google searches reveal that most other SR owners only have 10 digits on the frame. Not sure how one could decode the year of it. It's this bike:
http://www.kdxrider.net/forums/viewtopi ... 77&t=16189


Took a few pics of the idle gear. I think my idle is ok. The teeth all seemed fine. Obviously still dirty as hell and they'll have to be soaked and cleaned up. Rod and center valve also looked ok.
And man, those exhaust valves just snapped right off! You can tell where the "shafts" used to be. Almost look filed off. Is it possible an old owner filed them off to keep them open or closed? Or would this be the result of normal wear?!

Idle Gear:







Snapped exhaust valves/gears:






Reading up on some SR stuff, I came across this guy, who apparently GLUED his exhaust valves open! Would you say this is advisable(ish)? Or at the very least a cheap fix to what seems to be a persistent problem?
http://www.geocities.com/a57ngel/moto/SR.html

KIPS and compensative engine mods
The power valve system on earlier years had a problem with valves breaking or the gear teeth stripping out. I was replacing mine twice a year so I just glued them (the two side aluminum valves) in the "open" position with epoxy glue. The middle valve still works well since it's made from steel. That change caused some low-to-mid range power loss but I got that back when I had the cylinder custom sleeved so that the top of the 3 exhaust ports were .7mm lower. Also I removed the thermostat valve in the head which is supposed to open when the engine gets hot. It was stuck in the open position. Even if it worked it might be restrictive to coolant flow when it's open (compared to the R model which has no regulator). The middle valve still works well since it's made from steel. That change caused some low-to-mid range power loss but I got that back when I epoxied the two exhaust ports (farthest from the main exhaust port) closed. I used the epoxy that comes as two different colored putties. Squish it in as far as where the two little ports passageways meet and then move the piston (with rings in place) up/down to cut off excess putty which would later hit the rings during use.

Your e6 needs TWO water/oil seals. That "89-94" ebay listing may be incorrect. The impeller shaft and right side cover underwent some minor changes after 1991 or 1992 I think.

Also, it doesn't mention anything about oil seals in the description..

It says "oil seals" in the name though. So should I get those two seals "just in case" as well as that impeller shaft bearing? Things are getting slightly complicated and beyond my level of understanding (hopefully that'll change in time).


I'm not sure how much I want to spend on this bike. I honestly just bought it as a playbike as my 4-stroke didn't have the power I wanted off-road. Paid 600$ (I bargained in new sprocket/chain set). Labour is really cheap here (I just paid 127$ for a new piston, valve and oil change on the 4-stroke). Labour was 30$. For small scooters it's way less. But getting "proper" work done is kind of hard... Guys have rudimentary tools and certainly don't have access to owner's manuals or anything like that, so I'm not sure if splurging on a bunch of quality parts would be a waste. 2-strokes are rare here but I brought it to a local "expert". Small stuff like seals and bearings are usually easy to find here. They have a real "can do" attitude when it comes to fixing stuff with nothing which a western mechanic would think impossible. Still, to give you an idea of reboring/engne work over here:





So in a nutshell, I'm not sure I want to spend hundreds of dollars in repairs on a bike with a questionable past. There's even indication part of the cylinder was welded a bit after it was sleeved (they weren't careful when they sleeved it?). I like putting good parts in an engine (even though taobao.com has KDX pistons selling for like 15$), but I think I should set a "limit" for this bike. I guess what I'm getting to is that if it's running, I'm happy. It had very decent power when I rode it before. Getting "peak performance" isn't what I'm after. A 2-stroke feels perky enough for me in the first place. I just want a bike which is reliable enough and . I'm not seeking "optimal" low/high-end performance or anything. Just something to have fun with. Given my situation, what would you guys advise? My gut instinct tells me to just go for bare essentials and hope the rest can get fixed on the cheap here, ghetto-style.



Thanks again for being so patient with newbie owners.

[6 Riders]

Since you are ordering parts, can I recommend the water pump seals and bearing? I usually buy 2 or 3 seals at a time (one bearing lasts plenty long). Last time I purchased these, I bought an Engine seal kit for about $20, came with all the oil and water seals.....and it was cheaper than individual KAW parts.

Do you recommend a specific site for those?
This would be the engine seal kit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winderosa-Engin ... 40&vxp=mtr

Would a kit like this normally include the water pump seals?

Regarding bearings, do you mean the crankshaft bearing/seals? Mooseracing has some for 50$ as well. Mechanic told me he looked at everything so it should be fine, but here you never know.
r

Yes that is the seal kit, includes all the engine seals, including the water pump seals. I only used the water pump and clutch shaft seals....still cheaper than OEM and has held up well. The bearing I was referring to is the water pump bearing. It should be changed every few years.

[KDXGarage]

Post a VIN or Frame Number and we can run a check for you on year model.

Frame Number

I think HIN means Hull Identification Number, like on a Jet-Ski.

According to the Model Identification Guide, that is a 1992 model. KDX200-G had USD forks starting in 1990, again, according to the model identification guide.

If you don't mind me asking, what country are you in?

Sorry to hear about the valves. Over time, they break, even if properly maintained. Neglect usually gets them first on many bikes it seems. (NOT ALL, gotanubike )

[Bitteeinit]

Yes that is the seal kit, includes all the engine seals, including the water pump seals. I only used the water pump and clutch shaft seals....still cheaper than OEM and has held up well. The bearing I was referring to is the water pump bearing. It should be changed every few years.

Cool. That's cheap preventative maintenance. Does each one have a small bag/number on it for ease of identification? And I see the seals are against the bearing, so buying the bearing also makes sense. The bearing is only 6$ as well.
Part: 92045 if I understand correctly (92049D and 92049C are the seals, which you say are part of the kit):

According to the Model Identification Guide, that is a 1992 model. KDX200-G had USD forks starting in 1990, again, according to the model identification guide.

If you don't mind me asking, what country are you in?

Sorry to hear about the valves. Over time, they break, even if properly maintained. Neglect usually gets them first on many bikes it seems. (NOT ALL, gotanubike )

Cool! Thanks a lot! What tells you the year? Which number? Surprising that they had so many different models and that some had USD forks so early on. Anyways, glad it's confirmed it's a pre-95 model. That's all I was slightly worried about.

I'm in Cambodia. But there was a Khmer owner before me, so undoubtedly this bike has been "Khmerized", meaning, had some hack jobs done to it. Bought it from a bike fanatic, but he kind of did a few weird things on it. He took off the self-mixing oil pump (?!) to allow more space for a 250 carb... He obviously hadn't changed the piston in ages (probably never did). The bike was a container from Japan. Anyways, fixed at some roadside stall where guys kind of do hack jobs, thus me being unsure as to how much money I want to dump into the bike (could be a lemon for all I know). I'm thinking it might be easier to stick to the basics for now and take it from there. If it holds together well for a few months (3-4) then I'd invest more into keeping her into shape. One thing's for sure, it'll never be a "collector's" item like some of yours, but hopefully I can be the first owner in a long time to truly take care of the bike and bring it back to life.

[KDXGarage]

The last 5 digits of the frame number are the key. I don't have it pulled up right now, but I want to say it was 1992 starting at 27500 and 1993 starting at 30000.

Thanks for helping that bike out, and good luck on the rebuild.

Are you able to source a gasket kit?