KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

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RC_ichard
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KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 09:34 pm Jun 12 2019

Ughhhh, back with hopefully my last issue...

Since I’ve never owned a KDX/KX or anything with a KIPS I have not had to service this type and would like to bounce a quick question off the forum.

I have searched around and found two other posts that had similar issues that ended in “never mind, it came off” outside the normal - “hit it with PB” or “try some heat” which have not worked so far.

Before I go 800lb gorilla on this poor 10mm nut and break teeth off my KIPS gear/shaft - does anyone have any tips to getting this off or bracing the assembly? This is NOT the outside LH paw that people always discuss, but the one underneath the side plug after removing the 3mm Allen screw. Both my service manual, and the cycle Pedia manual, say to remove that 10 mm nut before taking out the ball bearing and spring that’s located underneath it so I haven’t touched those yet.

The inside is totally caked with build up, and looks like it’s never been serviced it’s entire life so I did my best to clean it and try to get penetrating lube and heat to the nut to no avail.

What worries me the most is In the specific other thread where the guy had it stuck but then magically got it free, noted that once he got everything out he just discovered he broke a tooth off the gear which is what I’m trying to avoid.

Well I continue to go at it with a gentle heat, pressure, and penetrating lube, feel free to chime in if you run into this issue and what you did to alleviate it without destroying your KIPS gears.

Thanks!!

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by rungrandpa » 11:05 pm Jun 12 2019

I soaked in PB Blaster for days. I read where another guy recommended soaking in diesel for a couple of days.

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 02:57 pm Jun 13 2019

Thanks Gramps!

I have been soaking it with PB the last few days, but going to try and heating with a high wattage soldering iron and see if that helps work some lube in the threads (actually a wood-burning kit but its just a fancy soldering iron with much larger tips)

I'm worried about hitting it with too much force on my impact drivers, but will lock some test bolts down to 100 in/lbs (since manual stated 75in-lbs torque) and get it where my impact driver is just pulling those off at 100 in/lbs and then let that rap on it for a while in between soaking and heating.

In the meantime, please feel free to post any other tips you guys have used to get it off without damage!! I will make sure to update the thread with my outcome once i get it off in case anyone else down the road runs into the same issue and finds this thread :)

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by ericr » 03:27 pm Jun 13 2019

Heat it up then wick some 50-50 atf-acetone mixture on it. I've had that work when pb blaster didn't.
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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 05:08 pm Jun 13 2019

ericr wrote:
03:27 pm Jun 13 2019
Heat it up then wick some 50-50 atf-acetone mixture on it.
Thanks for the tip, will give it a try :)

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 05:15 pm Jun 13 2019

WOOOOO :partyman:
00B140A8-090C-49F4-8596-A602D8811857.jpeg
00B140A8-090C-49F4-8596-A602D8811857.jpeg (691.71 KiB) Viewed 545 times
She came lose today, I have had it soaking in PB Blaster for 4 days and also hitting it with heat. I would try to break it off every few heat cycles while it was still warm, but would also try to tighten it a bit then reverse it back out as I’ve had good luck doing that in the past just to break the seal and get things moving.

I used my decent torque wrench and got up to about 50ft-lbs reverse torque... and even there we had no movement which leaves me thinking the PO installed it at close to 75ft-lbs and not inch-lbs called for by kawi.

In any event, after seeing the aforementioned torque thresholds and still no movement, I broke out my smaller Ryobi electric 3/8” impact (3-power settings each with variable trigger pulls maxing out around 150 ft-lbs... felt better using that then my 1/2” air impact hitting 500ft lbs) and worked my way up through all 3x switches until it FINALLY broke free at the highest setting after getting hammered on for 10 seconds.

I will also note for anyone stuck in the same area as me.... the head is hard to get a hold on and if your like me and didn’t want to chew up the paint in your table vice this becomes an issue wrenching on it that hard. Using the impact driver, you get nice Swift blows, but not massive over torque that’s trying to rotate the entire head out of your grasp. I never would have thought that something that sits at roughly 5 foot pounds needed close to 100 to get it loose but time, age, neglect, and overtorquing probably all paid part of the toll.

Now I’m pulling out the gears and shaft but everything looks good - a quick clean and the new top end is going into the frame tonight!

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 05:58 pm Jun 13 2019

Ughhhhhhhhh!!

After pulling the gear... sure as **** just like the other dude who posted the gear broke a tooth off! You can’t see it from the outside as it broke at an angle but once you got it out you can see it’s clearly missing one and had the extra tooth in there as I was fishing out the ball bearing and spring.

I will say that looking into the tooth that broke, you can see the grain structure of the metal and it’s very saturated with buildup and goop in there which leaves me to believe it was done BEFORE I started wrenching on it and could have been why I had such a hard time after the PO cranked on it to hella torque mixing up ft-lbs and inch-lbs... but whatever god only knows what truly happened.
6AE803D6-BF96-4451-97B8-FAE1047A811B.jpeg
Broken KIPS Main Shaft Gear - Outward Facing View
6AE803D6-BF96-4451-97B8-FAE1047A811B.jpeg (1.39 MiB) Viewed 544 times
0B9E8632-9D04-4F3A-9260-7CCF99F634F7.jpeg
Broken KIPS Main Shaft Gear - Backside View
0B9E8632-9D04-4F3A-9260-7CCF99F634F7.jpeg (1.09 MiB) Viewed 544 times
Oh well, time to get ahold of the parts guy and get another order placed!! Tonight I’ll strip it the rest of the way and double check all the other shafts and see if I have anything else cracked... but man what a bummer haha.

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 06:28 pm Jun 13 2019

Well **** me!! This little stupid gear is going for $90?!?!? Are you kidding me?? Thats an entire sprocket and chain setup for the same cost as a little piddly gear.

Bahhhh oh well, sucks but it is what it is...

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by kdxsully » 06:39 pm Jun 13 2019

Welcome to KDX ownership. Full disclosure: I don't have a KIPS :mrgreen:
I like turtles

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by KDXGarage » 11:01 pm Jun 13 2019

WOW!!

I am glad you got it out. I assume some previous owner did not maintain it. Any company that has made a bike with a power valve has to be serviced sometimes.
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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 10:51 am Jun 14 2019

Yeah... with how tight it was on there and the force required to remove it I’m not shocked it was broken.

After checking eBay for used set up’s, the only heads I found that are in decent condition have the power valves removed already and sold separately. The few sets of power valves I did find for sale, we’re all sold as is in though they didn’t mention it in the listing I spotted one or two teeth broke it off that very same gear.... clearly just looking for a sucker who didn’t notice it when ordered and the no-return as-is policy means your screwed when you get it.

All in all, It looks like it had been broken for sometime with the build up showing where the cracked parts met up but in all honesty with there being so much build up and liquid black goo in there I could have easily broke it and it just got coated when I was pulling it out.

Oh well, what’s done is done - just gotta make sure I 1) don’t over tighten it and 2) clean it often and she should be fine going forward :)

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by KDXGarage » 01:04 pm Jun 14 2019

$65.34 at Partzilla

$66.50 at Rocky Mountain ATV / MC
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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by GATOROC » 01:15 pm Jun 14 2019

Whoops... I should have known that KDXGarage would beat me to it! :cool:

That gear is "on sale" at RMATV for the super low price of $66.50, but it's on backorder until 6/24, and I'm not sure how reliable that B/O date really is.
16085 16085-1274 GEAR,LH VALVE ROD $86.36 $66.50
2000 KDX 220

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by KDXGarage » 01:51 pm Jun 14 2019

HA! :lol:

Maybe they can still get them. :please:
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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 01:04 pm Jun 15 2019

Thanks guys!!!

I actually took that to my local dealer and they were nice enough to price match with a $25 store credit as i already ordered through them. Originally when i checked Partzills showed $90 but didn't think to sign in to see if it was on sale.

You guys are awesome, thanks again for the help!!

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by KDXGarage » 05:02 pm Jun 15 2019

Glad you got it going!

On Partzilla, one has to "sign in" to see the actual price.
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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by RC_ichard » 02:40 pm Jun 21 2019

RC_ichard wrote:
01:04 pm Jun 15 2019
I actually took that to my local dealer and they were nice enough to price match with a $25 store credit as i already ordered through them.
Well, apparently that was not the case.... They claim to have told me they *COULD* match the price down to $60 and still turn a profit, but that they were not doing it in my specific case as they already processed the order. They clarified it as the next time i buy more of that same part - they can just charge me the proper $60 for it, but since i didn't catch that on my initial phone call I'm **** out of luck and would not even offer anything down to even a small partial store-credit. (Note- They post no returns, exchanges, or cancelled orders after they are placed so returning and reordering is out of the question... but that does make sense for odd-ball OEM parts that will never sell if they just kept it in stock when someone changed their mind)

All-in-all, it just left a bad taste in my mouth - its one thing to not do it, but to tell me you can drop the price since your making such a killing on that one part but your not going to was just a kick in the pants. Just tell me no next time and dont play games.

Even though I've been a long standing customer racking up $1000's in sales, i thought they could work with me partially but since i have not ordered much in 2019 they said my sales were dismal at best (but clearly not counting the 5x sets of tires i purchased over the last few years, innertubes to match, gloves/roost guard, helmet, fluids/oils/grease, tools, etc outside of the custom order parts desk.)

Oh well, enough of my bitch fest - Ill just have to live and learn! The build is going well, but i forgot one oil seal on the KIPS so i placed an order for that... but you better believe it was NOT with my local MX store. Going forward - everything will be routed to an on-line retailer - which really sucks as i preferto goto family owned business as the customer service is on point - but this event make it clear i mean nothing to them and they would rather loose all my business then to correct a price (Which by-the-way now that the parts page is working it shows a standard cost of $60 and not $90 on the site like they claim it was when i placed the order when the parts website was down)

Oh well, hopfully will have pics posted of the rebuild by this weekend!!!!

Thanks again for all the help and tips along the way fellas!!

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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by KDXGarage » 03:41 pm Jun 21 2019

After giving it a few days, let the owner know or someone in charge, not just the parts counter guy.

I like dealing locally, but I can't afford to just donate and extra $25 on a $65 part. I like them, but not THAT much.

Good luck on the rebuild.
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Re: KIPS Main Shaft 10mm Nut Stuck

Post by rungrandpa » 04:07 pm Jun 21 2019

I have one parts house locally I try to buy things at, and they are not a dealer.
All the dealers are not worth supporting in my opinion. I buy parts online if my one local guy doesn't have what I need.

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