kvkdx's Thoughts on Fuel Ratio (NOT Fuel Mixture Calculator)

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kvkdx
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by kvkdx »

i live and ride colorado altitude from 6000k and normally ride between 8k and 9500k I run amsoil dominator: 50:1 and my plugs look great and bike runs well. also Freddette racing and RB designs both confirmed that my ratio was good.

Seems like observation most Green guys run 32:1 and 40:1 ratios, Ive been told my legend mechanics and Slavens, etc to run what Oil says, so Amsoil dom says 50:1 I run 50:1 when I asked Freddette and RB and Lectron, they all said 50:1 is good with amsoil oil Im running and the Bike seems to love it. I am in colorado so Im higher alititude, but less than 50:1 seems like a lot of spooge ??

ND 50:1 is super easy to calulate so when I ride to a gas station I can put 1 little container to a gallon and go

(Edited to combine multiple posts)
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Post by kvkdx »

2FAST wrote: 01:48 pm Dec 20 2008 Well whille this post is about mixing will someone PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME!!! question is I ride slow for the most part lots of lugging around im still trying to get used to the transition of going from my raptor to the kdx and it seem's like it's smoking LOTS it's a all stock bike 2005 -200 as of now im 32:1 can I lighten up some or what? What do you guy's run ratio wise and what grade fuel? Im gonna be running KLOTZ SUPPER Techni Plate!! rite now Im using kawasaki bran 2-stroke oil and I hate it!!! stinks.. Anyways just a lil help would be much appreciated..
theres lot of Opinions and debates on whats correct, I can tell you that I currently am following what Slavens agrees upon, and so far a few pro mechanics also agree, I run what the bottle says to run, My Amsoil dominator says to run its product at 50:1 the oil is made to run at that ratio. Yes you can change ratios, and riders can tweak and run different ratios, but most Pros agree to run what the OIL is made to run, hence my Amsoil is a 50:1 oil so I run, my bike runs clean, smokes but not a ton, and plugs are clean
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rungrandpa
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by rungrandpa »

I e-mailed Slavens and asked about this. Jeff e-mailed me said he uses Amsoil Sabre at 90-1 - expects 90 hours out of his top end.
Lot's of people criticizing this mixture on blogs.
I run 50-1 and everything looks good when disassembled.
If you run 7000 to 9000 rpm constantly 32-1 or 40-1 would be in order.
I used to run 50-1 synthetic 2 stroke oil in the 70's! in my 250CC CZ at high RPM with good results.
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by kvkdx »

Yes, I have a couple guys that run 88:1 sabre and 100: 1 sabre, 1 of them races the other rides slow and crawling single track colorado, Both spooge more than me which is strange, I run 50:1 and it appears that the bike runs clean and well. I trust your advice but wonder why the 40:1 or "lower" ratio , more oil than what Im running because of altitude?? Less air but run my oil ?? Why? I dont mind trying, but with my setup and Lectron, most seem to agree that Im good for 50:1. just want enough oil for the bike to stay cool and happy
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by kvkdx »

sorry, just realized you said 7k--9k RPM's....lol Yes you are correct, I run 7--10k altitude and ride at decent paces, but more slow obstacles and single track colorado exploring, and sicne we are NOT always on the pipe, some of my group rides sabre 88:1 and stuff like that, but they still spooge more than me running 50:1
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by kvkdx »

rungrandpa wrote: 11:22 am Jan 23 2020 I e-mailed Slavens and asked about this. Jeff e-mailed me said he uses Amsoil Sabre at 90-1 - expects 90 hours out of his top end.
Lot's of people criticizing this mixture on blogs.
I run 50-1 and everything looks good when disassembled.
If you run 7000 to 9000 rpm constantly 32-1 or 40-1 would be in order.
I used to run 50-1 synthetic 2 stroke oil in the 70's! in my 250CC CZ at high RPM with good results.
Im not opposed to running Sabre at 90:1 but would love to see a KDX (older bike) run this and confirm its ok? or atleast here people that have, I do think since im slower technical single track mostly that a leaner mix would be fine, My Beta friend runs 88:1 and bike runs well, but he spooges too much and hates that, ( i know that spooge can be other factors) I will be now running a lectron and Im curious to see how this pairs up with the 50:1 ratio?? I believe the lectron will "atomize" better and so a finer more consistant stream gas flow, so Im wondering If I should try the SABRE ??
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by kvkdx »

Ive been recomended to run sabre at 90:1 on my KDX 220r 2001, I ride mainly single track colorado high country ??
what do yall think? Blow my engine or Ill be fine??
currently running 50:1 and yes plugs can be dark
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by doakley »

I'm just guessing here since most of my riding is at lower altitudes, but, I'll bet lunch most people at higher altitudes are jetted too rich which might be the source of some significant spooge. Settle on a ratio that is recommended by the oil mfg and stick with it and change your jetting as you change altitudes. (Or install a Lectron I guess.) BTW, I run Amsoil Dominator at 50:1 with only mild spooge. (Runs cleaner since I installed the RB Design modified carb.)
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by kvkdx »

Thanks doakley, My bike runs well and does not spooge bad, only about 1/3 the way down the silencer , also I am curious to see if any improvements happen w Lectron installed and running 50:1, But some here, Slavens here in town and also some legend riders on Betas and Ktms are agreeing that Sabre 90:1 is a good choice. Do I run a few gas tanks at 90:1 sabre and just see if I feel or see a difference? Then check plugs and make sure are wet ? and If any bad effects go back to 50:1 ? I guess Im more nervous that normal seeing how our bikes are older tech compared to newer KTMs etc.....But if Slavens says its cool, Its hard to deny Im also wondering if any riders have finally landed on a perfect fuel ratio and benn like, "dang now my bike sounds and runs awesome" Or is this something I could just get lost chasing and never really know
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by rungrandpa »

I found this Maxima info sheet helpful.
https://www.maximausa.com/pdf/Oil%20Mig ... 0Sheet.pdf
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by kvkdx »

I will have to say, Im some what shocked at the entitlement and ignorance of our culture, I watched a Jeff slavens vid on what pre mix he runs and why and he clearly explains all the years experience he has, racing, riding and even breaking down and checking rings, pistons etc for the different oils he has personally used......then I read the "comments" and you have multiple people claiming, how dumb it is to run higher than 50:1 and dude , your gonna blow an engine, Id NEVER run 80:1 etc........right after Slavens gives his personal experience. How the hell do weekend warriors who most likely are not master bike mechanics dead set on Telling Jeff Slavens he is dead wrong, Its a sad culture , Who am I to critique someone with his experience in the matter, (now personally slavens is not my friend and when you see him face face he can be an arrogant prick) but that doesnt mean he doesnt know bikes. Anyways, rant over sorry. Im taking the advice of PROS who know their stuf and will be running sabre at 90:1 for my kdx w lectron carb. Ill review and give my season experience this summer , I think the main reason I am seeking a change from my 50:1 is , my bike still smokes more than I think it should and my plugs are dark and wet (with proper jetting) and I can only assume this also means my powervalves are getting gunked up, so I want to try a cleaner oil to run
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by doakley »

Hahaha! You've stepped right into the middle of one of the biggest "do it my way" debates in the two stroke world! Right up to your shoe laces in spooge! I say, "Go for it!" As long as you're running the mix per the OIL MFG's recommendation, I can't see a problem. I used to run BelRay at 100:1 "back in the day". It was BelRay's recommended mix for that particular synthetic oil and I never had any problems with it. (Smelled nice too but who cares?).

BTW, you DO know you can't just pull your plug out and tell anything meaningful about your jetting or mixture, right? You've got to do a proper chop test with a new plug. Your plugs could be black and wet because you ride around at low rpm all the time (like me most of the time).

And the offer for the fork boots still stands! Damn, that's a nice looking bike, I still say!
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by kvkdx »

yes , good point about plug, and I do ride a lot of slow stuff, so makes sense, thank you.
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Re: Fuel Mixture Calculator

Post by bufftester »

This is like the oil vs ATF in the gearbox debate. The ONLY thing that matters is that you pick a ratio, pick a fuel, and jet to that combination. If you change anything, rejet to compensate. The only way you'll get rid of splooge in a 2T is to ride a 4T. Just remember that the splooge is how we mark the lesser riders behind us lol
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Re: kvkdx's Thoughts on Fuel Ratio (NOT Fuel Mixture Calculator)

Post by KDXGarage »

I split this off into a new thread, as it was not related to the ratio calculator.

Thanks.
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Re: kvkdx's Thoughts on Fuel Ratio (NOT Fuel Mixture Calculator)

Post by KDXGarage »

"my plugs look great and bike runs well"

"my bike runs clean, smokes but not a ton, and plugs are clean"

" it appears that the bike runs clean and well"

"just want enough oil for the bike to stay cool and happy"

"currently running 50:1 and yes plugs can be dark"

"My bike runs well and does not spooge bad only about 1/3 the way down the silencer "

"my bike still smokes more than I think it should and my plugs are dark and wet (with proper jetting)"

:partyman: :drinkers: :yawinkle:

Jetting is fun! :grin:
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Re: kvkdx's Thoughts on Fuel Ratio (NOT Fuel Mixture Calculator)

Post by javjacob »

I thought Amsoil Sabre was for air cooled engines? How would it differ from Dominator in the KDX?
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Re: kvkdx's Thoughts on Fuel Ratio (NOT Fuel Mixture Calculator)

Post by KDXGarage »

I'll pass:

APPLICATIONS
Use in all two-stroke handheld equipment where JASO FD,, ISO-L-EGD or API-TC oils are specified, including STIHL*, ECHO*, Toro*, Shindaiwa*, Craftsman*, 4-mix STIHL and Hybrid 4 Shindaiwa engines.

If you select 2006 KDX200, it shows Dominator or Interceptor.

Which plug are you using?
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Re: kvkdx's Thoughts on Fuel Ratio (NOT Fuel Mixture Calculator)

Post by SS109 »

I respect Slaven but that doesn't mean his word is gospel for anyone else. With the riders he deals with, in their environment, his experience holds more validity than it does for someone who rides completely differently in vastly different areas. However, it is smart to take the experience of people like him and see how it does or can apply to you and your situation.

That said... I have run 40:1 for thousands of hours, including with the infamous Castor 927, and don't get spooge unless it's time to repack my silencer or I haven't changed the jetting for the current warmer/higher elevation. My plugs look perfect mocha brown and I replace them once a year only because I feel like I should. Any spooge from a KDX is due to poor jetting, bad/worn carburetor, the silencer needing repacking, or a leaking right crank seal. No, I wouldn't ever run a ratio thinner than 50:1 in a KDX no matter who says it's fine. I'll trust more in the Kawasaki engineers who designed the KDX, who spent some real R&D time and money figuring out what worked best in it, over anyone else. Yes, I'm sure they went a little conservative on the ratio to insure the bikes were well oiled so running a little less probably isn't going to hurt it. However, 80:1 or 100:1? I wouldn't even think about it! The newer 2T oils are good but they aren't two times better at protecting your rings, piston, bearings, or cylinder plating than the 2T oils available when the KDX was built. I really don't understand why some will cheap out on oil yet put a lot of money in power adders, stabilizers, whatever, for their 2T bikes. It just blows my mind.

One other thing a lot of people seem to forget when choosing oil ratios... you make more power with more oil due to better ring seal with all other factors being equal.. This is proven to keep working up to a roughly 16:1 ratio. I also believe ring and piston life will last longer, based on the better ring seal, with higher oil ratios under the same circumstances.

Take what I say for what it's worth and nothing more. My bikes are long term investments in to my own personal happiness. I do what I know to keep them living for the long haul and, for my riding style, under my circumstances, I have been proven right over the years. Does that mean my experience applies to you? No, not directly but it's as valid as any other experience(s) out there with the KDX. I accept that I won't be able to convince no one to not run the horrible Sabre oil, or 80/100:1 ratios, and everyone else should accept that no one will convince me of the opposite. :grin:
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Re: kvkdx's Thoughts on Fuel Ratio (NOT Fuel Mixture Calculator)

Post by kdxdazz »

My understanding of how a 2 stroke lubrication works is oil drops out of the fuel and gets deposited in the crankcase, as the crank spins it flicks oil up into the cylinder area, half the oil would mean half the lubrication and no a synthetic oil is not going to lubricate twice as well, am I on the right track? Spooging has nothing to do with the oil, I've tried running my 4 stroke at 40:1 just to test that theory, no spooge
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