how bad is this ?

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diymirage
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how bad is this ?

Post by diymirage »

hey guys
i bought a non running KDX yesterday and it had no compression
when i started to tear into it i found out the part of the case where the kips actuator shaft comes out is broken
it looks like it was JB welded on at some point but it is completly detached from the rest of the case
(i will post pictures tonight)

is this at all fixable or should i consider the bike a total loss ?
(it looks like the shaft is loose inside the crankcase aswell, it turns almost completly around)

any suggestions ?
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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Julien D
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Re: how bad is this ?

Post by Julien D »

The actuator shaft comes out of the inner clutch cover. You should be able to find a cheap replacement on eBay.
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doctord23
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Re: how bad is this ?

Post by doctord23 »

I have seen it before where someone tries to force the kips shaft out without removing the small keeper pin that keeps the shaft from moving vertically.
When they do, they break the case. The only real solution is to replace the inner clutch housing like Julien suggested if it is an E or H model.
If it is a C model, the clutch housing is one piece.
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diymirage
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Re: how bad is this ?

Post by diymirage »

so this part should fix it right ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-2006-KDX20 ... a4&vxp=mtr

ill try to tear the origenal one off right now to see if there is any damage underneath it before i start dropping moneys into it

would this cause the lack of compression aswell ?
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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Julien D
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how bad is this ?

Post by Julien D »

No, you wouldn't lose compression there. The crankcase is sealed from the clutch/transmission area. Or, should be at least.

Yes, that is the part you need. I would think you can find a better deal than that though!
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diymirage
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Re: how bad is this ?

Post by diymirage »

i sure hope i could find a better deal, but that is the only one online
but, if that not where im loosing compression then fixing that will not get my any closer to getting the bike back on the road
(would welding it be an option?)

i dont want to spend a ton of money on it if i cant get it running
the piston looked BRAND NEW on the top, no deposits what so ever
i havent had a chance to hit it with a scotchbrite pad yet to see how it looks, or the cylinder

definatly didnt see any gouges that would explain the loss of compression
any other ideas where the issue may lay ?
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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Julien D
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how bad is this ?

Post by Julien D »

Not sure where/how it's broken, but anyone competent with welding aluminum should be able to fix it up for you.
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diymirage
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Re: how bad is this ?

Post by diymirage »

thanks Julien, pics are uploading as we speak
i think i may have also found the culprit for the low compression
the upper piston ring seems to be pinched somehow in its own groove
(there is also some scuffing there)


heres my theory, whenever the kips actuator holder part of the clutch cover broke it overextended the valve and it made contact with the piston, forcing the groove shut and the ring caught in there ?

just a thought, i guess

one more question on welding the clutch cover, would it be advisable because it is a sealed part for the engine oil or will it be to tought to get that "true" again ?
i guess i can always ask them to put it on the lathe and give it a quick once over



damage to the cover

Image

Image

the actuator , damaged but still servicable...if someone can tell me what this part is "supposed" to look like

Image

Image

and the damage to the piston
im going to see if i can pry out the ring and at lease re-use the piston itself
maybe slap some new rings on there

Image

Image
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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Julien D
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how bad is this ?

Post by Julien D »

Looks like you found the issue. A top end kit should take care of that. Cylinder look ok?

I think your clutch cover could be welded, but it'll be a bit tricky. I wouldn't worry about it warping so much as getting a good weld on that irregular surface.
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how bad is this ?

Post by KDXGarage »

From what I am seeing, the piston looks damaged and not one I would reuse.

I would also suggest you keep looking on eBay and buy a used inner cover.

Keep looking the bike over to find even more problems.
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rbates9
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how bad is this ?

Post by rbates9 »

I think a new cover is in order. And a new piston, rings, gaskets, and what not. If it was an out dated bike you could get by with welding the cover up but with the parts for an H model being plentiful and reasonably priced I would shop around for a good deal. It will probably cost you close to what the cover on ebay is to have some one weld it for you and then it looks like it broke out to the sealing surface so there could be issues with oil leaks after it is back together.

The KIPS actuator pin is done. You will need a new one of then also. You should check the shaft itself to make sure it is straight too.
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Julien D
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how bad is this ?

Post by Julien D »

Guess that depends on who you know. I could probably get that welded for a 6 pack of cheap beer.... A new cover would be the better option, but I wouldn't give $80 for a used one.
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diymirage
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how bad is this ?

Post by diymirage »

Julien D wrote:Looks like you found the issue. A top end kit should take care of that. Cylinder look ok?
honoustly, no
there are some flat spots in there which are very notable when you run your hands through there

it realy should be reworked
but im not willing to spend $350.00 on a new top end without know for sure that is where my compression issue lies

same with the piston, the more i look at it the less i like it
(it seems to have mushroomed where the ring is stuck, almost like it got hung up on it way down and some material pulled up)

but im going to try and free up that ring and recondition the top a little bit and see if i cant get some compression back
and if that is the case THEN ill consider spending the moneys on it
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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rbates9
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how bad is this ?

Post by rbates9 »

diymirage wrote:
Julien D wrote:Looks like you found the issue. A top end kit should take care of that. Cylinder look ok?


it really should be reworked
but im not willing to spend $350.00 on a new top end without know for sure that is where my compression issue lies
If you spend $350 on a new top end that should include the cylinder being replated, new piston and rings, and a top end gasket set. Those are the ONLY things that can affect compression on a 2 stroke.
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how bad is this ?

Post by scheckaet »

i would not reuse that piston and ring.
However, I would try to free that ring like you mentioned to see if i can get that compression up.
I'd get a new side case, not worth welding imho, (unless you know someone that's REALLY good and that would take a lot less than 80 bux.
The KIPS actuator is fubar, get a new one (<5 bux) and i'd check that shaft to make sure it's very straight.
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diymirage
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Re: how bad is this ?

Post by diymirage »

allright guys

i managed to get the ring free and that piston sure is fubar
i think i will go ahead and button her back up with the bad piston in the no good plating and see if that brings back the compression

if it does i will jump to the conclusion that there is no blowby within the engine and rebuild the top end in the proper fashion

i totally agree that getting a used cover is prefferable to welding one, but maybe ill see if i cant get it welded for cheap whilest i wait for the right deal to come by


any suggestions on where i could find the KIPS actuator ?
(nothing on ebay)
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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how bad is this ?

Post by KDXGarage »

you'll never get a good reading with that piston and rings, why bother bolting it back up?? These are some of the joys of a $400 dirt bike. :wah:
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diymirage
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how bad is this ?

Post by diymirage »

Jason wrote:you'll never get a good reading with that piston and rings, why bother bolting it back up?? These are some of the joys of a $400 dirt bike. :wah:
i can think of several good reasons to bolt it back up
the most important one: practice

its been over a decade since i last rebuild an engine and i'd rather put this set-up back together and screw it up then a brand new one
plus, im still convinced that i should be able to feel better (not neccisarely good) compression now that the ring is freed up and that should help me feel better about spending the moneys on it
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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how bad is this ?

Post by fuzzy »

Heed the warning that piston gave you. It looks like it could just be a mild cold seizure, but could be lean seizure.....which could mean crank seals. I'd bolt it back together and do a leak-down test. Harbor Freight sells a decent cheap LD tester. If your cranks seals are shot, you're really looking at a top and bottom rebuild.
'91 KDX 200 Project $300 KDX
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diymirage
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Re: how bad is this ?

Post by diymirage »

i think the reason the bike seized was the same reason why the gass i drained out of the bike was clear...no oil in the mix
pulled the carb off and didn't find any in there iether
then take into account the ZERO deposits on the piston, sure doesnt look like he put a lot of miles in the reabuild
but then again, wouldnt that do a whole lot more damage?

i buttoned the cylinder and piston back up and there is definatly more compression, but still not as good as my DD KDX

i tried searching the harbor freight website for a leak down tester but couldnt find it

i'd really hate to rebuild the top and find the bottom is out of whack
i did check the play on the crank shaft and that all felt good, is that an indication?



also stopped by the local machine shop and he said that with prep time, welding, clean up and new seals i'd be looking at just as much to fix the old inner clutch cover as pulling one from ebay
(NO ONE has one laying around?)
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


-1996 KDX 200 woods weapon (converted to 99 green body)
-1996 KDX 200 plated street toy (barney edition)
-2003 Yamaha TTR125-L (wifeys bike)
-1997 KDX 220 project bike
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