Getting the front wheel up?

Have a question about technique?
throttleout
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Getting the front wheel up?

Post by throttleout » 11:00 am Oct 20 2014

I'm having trouble getting the front wheel up for log crossings and stuff. More so when going slow-1st gear. I'm pre-loading the suspension before trying to get the front wheel up. I've tried clutching it and rapping the throttle. It'll come up better in second. A lot of times I'll end up to far to the rear of the bike to. I'm not sure if it's technique, if I'm losing traction, or what. I shouldn't have put my weight on the rear wheel to get the front up should I. Bike has a FMF dessert pipe, but it otherwise stock. Anyways, any advice is appreciated.
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newbbewb
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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by newbbewb » 05:00 pm Oct 20 2014

2nd gear is your friend for log crossings on a kdx. 1st gear doesn't really have enough time in the meat of the powerband to gain forward momentum...It's over too fast. At least for me, keeping a wheelie up in first is more like a manual, which is a BMX or skateboarding trick where you're balancing the machine on the back, not really using much throttle after it's up. It's much easier in second to keep it lofted, and then you have enough momentum to go up/over stuff. 2nd and 3rd gear wheelies also take more commitment on your part.

There are also lots of mechanical things that change how easy the bike comes up. gearing, rear tire pressure, bar risers are the first three things I would think about. If you haven't played with bar risers, I highly suggest them. They make standing up an absolute breeze compared to the factory bars, hence wheelies become MUCH easier. It really is night and day difference. Too much rear tire pressure and you get limited traction, which makes it hard to get that front wheel up over stuff. gearing up a tooth or two in the back will slow the bike down and give you some more torque without blasting the rear tire off, making a wheelie easier. oh yes, tune that carb, make sure it's jetted correctly, you'll have more throttle snap.
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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by diymirage » 07:15 pm Oct 20 2014

what bike are we talking here ?

both my 200s have aftermarket pipes on them and the airbox lid removed and will pop wheelies on a twist of the throttle in 1st-4th
my 220 with stock everything doesnt like lofting the wheel at all
newbbewb wrote:DIYmirage has it right.


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throttleout
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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by throttleout » 09:13 pm Oct 20 2014

Oh yeah, I meant to give that info-kdx 200 diymirage. My airbox lid is removed too. It has stock jetting as of now, but only because I plan on installing boysen 607 reeds. I'm in Tennessee and rarely shift past fourth, and I spend most of the time in second and third. So, I'm also thinking about switching to a woods pipe. But, I'm real eager to get this thing jetted correctly. The jetting may be it...

newbbewb- How much rise are you talking about? I never considered that, but it makes sense. I'm short to though, 5'5", and should already have an advantage of being able to stand easy. :grin:
Thanks guys, I'll keep it in second for wheelies for now. At least until I get it jetted
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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by newbbewb » 10:13 pm Oct 20 2014

I'm 5 inches taller and I like the 30mm rise on my carmicheal bars. It's all personal preference.
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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by ohgood » 04:50 am Oct 21 2014

throttleout wrote:I'm having trouble getting the front wheel up for log crossings and stuff. More so when going slow-1st gear. I'm pre-loading the suspension before trying to get the front wheel up. I've tried clutching it and rapping the throttle. It'll come up better in second. A lot of times I'll end up to far to the rear of the bike to. I'm not sure if it's technique, if I'm losing traction, or what. I shouldn't have put my weight on the rear wheel to get the front up should I. Bike has a FMF dessert pipe, but it otherwise stock. Anyways, any advice is appreciated.

this has to be technique. check out youtube for enduro skills and pay particular attention to body positioning, the throttle braaaap, and suspension.

if i can get a slow wheelie across three (small) logs spaced about wheelbase apart, anyone can. did it in first, after many attempts.

the most helpful process has been the foot down log hop. it forces proper positioning, critical throttle and clutch timing, and coordination. try it, its a GREAT skill to build, and follows a rider in many other tight situations.

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by throttleout » 07:20 am Oct 21 2014

Ohgood, I've been watching a few different enduro skills vids, and they're all giving the same info. The pros make it look so easy. I think at this point I just need practice.

So, are you popping the clutch in first, or what?
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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by ohgood » 10:04 am Oct 21 2014

throttleout wrote:Ohgood, I've been watching a few different enduro skills vids, and they're all giving the same info. The pros make it look so easy. I think at this point I just need practice.

So, are you popping the clutch in first, or what?

yes to clutch usage. my bike's setup (gnarly woods pipe and no airbox lid) doesn't require clutching in 1st or 2nd, but i've learned (recently) that it's a good idea to keep the clutch lever covered at all times on this bike


to prevent launching into the woods. ;-)


this bike is so easy to pivot turn 90 degrees it's just silly. a little 'rap rap' and quick slip of the clutch and the bike is up from a standstill, in whichever direction it was leaning, then just pull the clutch in again and let it fall gently back to where you want to go. i'm cheating, with giraffe legs, but it should work that way for any/everyone.

for logs, depends on the log size. for smaller stuff just hit it with the front compressed and launch the bike over, kissing it with the rear tire on the other side. larger logs just means hitting it at the uppermost 3/4 of it's height with the front tire, and follow through with the rear. it's no where near as smooth as a trials bike rider would "splat" the bike into an obstacle, but it works fer me ;-)

i'd reallllly not like to have to go over obstacles without the clutch covered at least- that stuff is where dragons live, and i dont wanna tackle no dragons.

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by Bitteeinit » 10:36 am Oct 21 2014

Great thread. It's strange because I've also been looking at tons of how to videos this week. Trials, enduro, log hopping etc. I tried putting my weight to the rear but it won't pop up. Maybe my jetting is off (actually, it definitely is....), but I figure it should still be possible to at least lift the front wheel a bit. Would having really stiff clutch springs hurt? Maybe I'm just not popping the clutch enough, or my throttle/clutch popping timing is off... I might practice hoping over rocks or find a big log.... I agree that it's a GREAT skill to have so I'm determined to master it.

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by throttleout » 01:22 pm Oct 21 2014

ohgood wrote:
throttleout wrote:Ohgood, I've been watching a few different enduro skills vids, and they're all giving the same info. The pros make it look so easy. I think at this point I just need practice.

So, are you popping the clutch in first, or what?

yes to clutch usage. my bike's setup (gnarly woods pipe and no airbox lid) doesn't require clutching in 1st or 2nd, but i've learned (recently) that it's a good idea to keep the clutch lever covered at all times on this bike


to prevent launching into the woods. ;-)


this bike is so easy to pivot turn 90 degrees it's just silly. a little 'rap rap' and quick slip of the clutch and the bike is up from a standstill, in whichever direction it was leaning, then just pull the clutch in again and let it fall gently back to where you want to go. i'm cheating, with giraffe legs, but it should work that way for any/everyone.

for logs, depends on the log size. for smaller stuff just hit it with the front compressed and launch the bike over, kissing it with the rear tire on the other side. larger logs just means hitting it at the uppermost 3/4 of it's height with the front tire, and follow through with the rear. it's no where near as smooth as a trials bike rider would "splat" the bike into an obstacle, but it works fer me ;-)

i'd reallllly not like to have to go over obstacles without the clutch covered at least- that stuff is where dragons live, and i dont wanna tackle no dragons.
Larger logs is what I'm wanting to be able to cross smoothly without the rear wheel bucking up. I want my bike to perform like yours does. I'm looking for a woods pipe now.

I see the endurocross guys in the training video crossing logs from nearly a dead stop. I assume they're in first gear, and the bikes are tuned for low end power/torque. Anyone hear have that kind of skill, and how is your bike setup?
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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by ohgood » 05:58 pm Oct 21 2014

i can get over 24" , but its not pretty, more of the enduro ( bash plate drag) style then proper trials style.

below 20" or so, hit the log up high with the front, lighten the rear, and it kisses right over.

below 18" it looks like I know what I'm doing. sometimes. ;)


13/47 with gnarly woods pipe and a trials tire out back.

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by Bitteeinit » 09:47 pm Oct 21 2014

You should post a "how to" video when you get the time. Btw, does removing the airborne lid make a big/noticeable difference in power or throttle response?

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by ohgood » 05:48 am Oct 22 2014

Bitteeinit wrote:You should post a "how to" video when you get the time. Btw, does removing the airborne lid make a big/noticeable difference in power or throttle response?

'how to crash', 'how to break a leg', and 'how to tear off a radiator' are about as close to proper technique as i'll ever get... the masses would likely benefit greatly by watching pros like shawn watts on youtube instead. :)

airbox + jetting + pipe = yes

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by fuzzy » 08:52 am Oct 22 2014

A properly jetted carb will have A LOT more off idle throttle response/snap....even if you don't touch the box or the pipe. The stock pipe is probably the torquiest of all, IMO.
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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by throttleout » 10:09 am Oct 22 2014

fuzzy wrote:A properly jetted carb will have A LOT more off idle throttle response/snap....even if you don't touch the box or the pipe. The stock pipe is probably the torquiest of all, IMO.
Hmm, the stock pipe is the torquiest of all....I have a stock pipe, but a desert pipe is what I'm running. So a woods pipe would seem to be a happy medium between a stock and desert. I'm about to trade my desert for woods.
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Getting the front wheel up?

Post by JoKDX220r » 07:02 pm Oct 22 2014

someone already told me "you need to burn some gas to improve... "
that's why 3years ago I build thoses steps ( 3' high) to practice ... :mrgreen:

Image

for the log crossing :
[youtube][/youtube]

goodluck!

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by Bitteeinit » 07:40 pm Oct 22 2014

Wow, that's cool! Building small obstacles like that is great. I might do it in a bit once I've weeded all my land. 1' high, 2' and 3' (eventually). For the moment I'll just pick some rocks nearby and practice passing over them.

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by ohgood » 08:16 pm Oct 30 2014

Bitteeinit wrote:Wow, that's cool! Building small obstacles like that is great. I might do it in a bit once I've weeded all my land. 1' high, 2' and 3' (eventually). For the moment I'll just pick some rocks nearby and practice passing over them.

ok, the "how NOT to" video now



skip to 3:00, and keep in mind the logs always are bigger in person ;-)

the kdx is much smoother over big stuff than a really beat up drz :supz:

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by Bitteeinit » 08:59 pm Oct 30 2014

Good stuff! So are you riding the yellow drz or...?

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Re: Getting the front wheel up?

Post by throttleout » 10:49 am Oct 31 2014

That's a huge log. I've never crossed one that size. I want to be able launch off one of those.

Edit: I've been practicing though. Every time I come up to a log I cross it instead of going around. Crossed one good yesterday. Got the front wheel over and when back hit it I was on the gas. It was more like I jumped the log. The front and rear wheel hit the ground at the same time. It was probably a 14" log.
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